M38s blue from the factory???? (lots of pics)

Bill_F · Post by **Bill_F** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:38 pm

My data plate does not say USAF on it, I wish it did. I did not find any army reg numbers on my hood, just USAF, green, bare steal

Bill_F · Post by **Bill_F** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:39 pm

Larry,
How are things going with your jeep? I wanted to paint mine last week but it was just to cold. Need to find a better garage.

Rtaylor · Post by **Rtaylor** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:21 am

Bill - I am near Memphis, TN. I will start getting some pictures together to post.

Larry - The Contract number on the data plates says DA-33-019-ORD.-43 an the Responsible Agency is ORDNANCE DEPT. I hope that is what you where asking for?

I will try to spend more time looking at the jeep this weekend.

MajBen · Post by **MajBen** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:03 pm

Hi, I have not seen the pictures but will offer a comment. I have tried for at least 3 years to prove that the USMC M38s came from the factory our USMC green. All of my efforts has failed and I have come to the conclusion, as difficult as it is to concede, that all M38s left the factory Army OD. My biggest argument was that the USMC had it own data tag designating the Corps as the responsible agency so why not have had them painted our color.

I have been in touch with Mr. Z who worked on the factory line for over 30 years and was curatory of the Willys museum for several years. His service did not go back as far as the M38 but it did the M38A1. He says that he can remember the A1s being painted the different service colors while on line but he thought that all M38 were Army OD.

What is very interesting from his correspondence and phone calls is that he said that civilian painted parts that were common with the military units were swapped back and forth when a shortage occured so from that statement, I think it goes a long way of explaining why we are seeing some parts that are colors other than Army OD. FWIW Semper Fi Ben

Bill_F · Post by **Bill_F** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:54 pm

But the tub on my jeep is blue in places that should be green. I will have to update the links to the pics this weekend so you can see that. It is blue right down to red oxide primer then bare metal. It is blue where the frame hits the body for mounting. I have some untouched sections in the wheel wells that are covered by an undercoating. I am going to strip that down looking for OD but dont think I will find any.

Bill_F · Post by **Bill_F** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:54 pm

The serial number on my jeep is 54398 so they are not to far apart

Bill_F · Post by **Bill_F** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:51 am

Here is an update on pics

You can clearly see plut paint under where things where bolted on the firewall and where the hood goes

Blue paint on the underside of the floors and on the hat channel where it would be on the frame

Clearly more blue paint all over tub

Blue paint under the cowl behind gauges and not some place anybody every repaints

part of removed hat channel cleary blue and no green.

Bill_F · Post by **Bill_F** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:53 am

everything that is not blue or red is rust, not any sade of green, rember cameras will distort color a little. I have done lost of work to this tub and know it inside and out, no OD paint was on it.

Bill_F · Post by **Bill_F** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:54 am

All I need is a good heated garage and my jeep will be blue once again.

Post by **Ryan_Miller** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:34 pm

Bill,

Looks like things are coming together.

Inspires me to get to work on my M38 project.

Post by **wesk** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:50 pm

Chris,
That was the Vietnam era USAF OD. A very flat medium greenish OD.

Ben and I have managed to garnish a lot of info from a retired Willys employee who worked there during the M38 and m38A1 production. His reply to M38 colors was a very pointed OD Only for the M38's with later M38A1 production adding Blue, Gray and USMC OD.

Bill_F · Post by **Bill_F** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:55 pm

Ryan those pics are a little dated. Right now all the rust has been replaced, it really just needs some finish body work and paint.

Wes I know all the research you have put in, but just because one or two factory workers from that time period said it didnt happen doesnt make it fact. We all know how memory works, and they might have been not on shift when a blue m38 went through. It looks like there might be two m38s now that are blue and that kind of evidance you just cant overlook. I know what you theriors are but since I am the one that worked on the tub I can tell you that no floor replacement or other body work has every been done to my jeep. The thing is now one will ever know for sure. I will always think the way I am, and from talking to you I dont think unless some paper work comes up that you will ever change your mind, which is just fine with me I am going to restore my jeep the way I think it left the factory, wont be a perfect jeep but I dont care. I do have one untouched section of the tub I still have to sand down and that is the insde of the wheel wells.

I am waiting to see pics of this other one, and I am really interested in what the hood number is.

Post by **Ryan_Miller** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:31 am

Bill,

I just wanted to say that we on the board are interested in your findings and that documenting/sharing your findings has you have done is the correct thing to do.

If I were you, I would be doing the same thing. I would paint that jeep Air Force Blue and enjoy the heck out of it.

Whether or not any M38's came out of the factory blue or not is another mystery as so far, information has pointed toward them all being painted the same OD.

I would encourage you to research as much as you can. Wes, I and the others will also keep looking for any documentation. That is the only way we are going to learn more about these vehicles.

The main point is that anyone should feel free to post findings on thier jeeps or thier research. While we may discuss them here on the board, it is best to have factory documentation before we can say 100%. The whole idea of this board is to discuss things related to Willys Overland Military vehicles. Sometimes we may not always agree 100%.

I think everyone on this board has done a great job in keeping the discussions friendly with no personal attacks. That speaks volumes in my book and I honestly feel that we have a great group of people here.

With that said, I have enjoyed watching your progress and pondering about your paint mystery.

Bill_F · Post by **Bill_F** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:47 am

I hope I didnt sound rude, didnt mean to If I did. I just want everyone to consider all possiblities. I wish I had the resources and the time to research the paint more. (I am a district Executive with the boy scouts so I have no time) I just cant wait to get my jeep done, wont be perfect but will be a good driver. I doubt we will ever know if any m38s left the factory blue for sure, but if two have been found that could have, we need to take a serious look at that and not just brush it under the rug as not possible.

Some other interesting things about my jeep, had artic hard top on it (which is OD and not blue) No top bow brackets, all the holes have cairage bolts in them to cover them up. Spare tire carrier mounted on side, again holes on tailgate filled in using cariage bolts, I will be going rear mount. My jeep had a hard top, but it did not have the body reienformant plates on the rear.

Bill_F · Post by **Bill_F** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:49 am

One more thing, if you have not figured it out. I am not good at spelling and I aploygize for that.