'52 M38 Wiring Questions

paynzer · Post by **paynzer** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:18 pm

My hat is truly off to the folks in America that designed and understood all this stuff back in the days before "technology"...it blows my mind.

Post by **wesk** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:32 pm

A soldered trio connection is just fine. The real benefit to using the connectors is it makes troubleshooting electrical issues later a piece of cake.

in the days before "technology"...it blows my mind.

I spent a weekend back in 1996 at Bournemouth England. While there I spent a full day at Portsmouth Navy Yard where I observed dry docks built originally in the 15th century. One of them had Lord Nelson's Flagship in it.

Now that is technology that existed 500 years ago!!! Yes, it is an awesome thought. isn't it!

paynzer · Post by **paynzer** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:59 pm

The thing that really got me into this jeep project was all the mechanical stuff. It is really awesome and apparently well thought out. Those folks were working at drafting tables and kitchen tables.....idea after idea... no computers, no instant animation.... just trial and error and back to the drawing board. I know that today's technology does alot of good, but we seem to have lost some of that "garage" logic my dad had. I am trying to capture some of that spirit with this project... really puts the brain into action much better than television. Thanks for all your help...I'm more than sure I'll be back for more soon, paynzer.

whydahdvr · Post by **whydahdvr** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:42 am

There is an interesting article in the Colonial Williamsburg Magazine in the President's Report Issue. On page 73 the article talks about how projects are developed at Colonial Williamsburg to recapture lost knowledge. On the first page the author, Jay Gaynor, relates a story about developing a site in Ohio showcasing 19th c. trades. In a dinner conversation with the elderly parents of a friend they point out that we today spend a lot of time drawing, calculating, and figuring things out. Back then - 18th, 19th, early 20th c. - they just went ahead and did things.
The people designing and building stuff, whether it was canons, houses, ships, furniture, or whatever had served an apprenticeship whereby they learned the accumulated knowledge of their master or mistress. They in turn then had years of practical experience on how to do things efficiently to increase production, and then developed their techniques and skills which they passed on to their own apprentices.
As Wes mentions, in the case of ship building, about the only thing that was developed to plan off of were hull models or the occasional scale model. Currently the USS Constitution is going through a major restoration where the diagonal hull ribs are being replaced. They were taken out in the 19th c. showing that knowledge was lost between when she was built and the time of the US Civil War. Those diagonal braces prevent the hull from hogging - sagging down at each end.
So our learning experience with these jeeps is recapturing lost knowledge and skills - the skills of maintaining, repairing, and rebuilding these vehicles, their engines, and their electrical systems. Fortunately we have folks like Wes to help guide us with their practical knowledge they learned on the job. But for people around my age - 30's-40's - we are more familiar with computers and other things than this much mechanical experience. So thanks!

A long winded story on the value of this site to retain lost knowledge and practical experience.

paynzer · Post by **paynzer** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:54 am

Well spoken. I just feel as a school teacher that our future generations are headed for technological dependence and practical "dumbness" ??? I'm 51, and as I work on this jeep I already see myself in the gray areas of the "dumb" meter at times. I do remember as a child watching my dad take an idea and turn it into a mechanical reality. I think he built everything to keep from buying it...great times.

Post by **wesk** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:12 am

Creating a technology dependent generation is one place where the government and industry agree. It is a key ingredient in the governments long range plan to control it's sheep.

paynzer · Post by **paynzer** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:36 am

So true Wes... problem with most all Americans and people in general is that they don't see themselves as sheep. But all sheep require is a free ride to a green pasture... they don't see themselves under control until the sheers hit their backsides and their wool is stripped away...too late then for realization of the situation !!!

Hey Wes, I saw a hand drawn diagram of the old style military turn signals you had posted in a past thread, but it was too small to read. Could you post a larger copy of this so I could study it a bit. Thanks, paynzer.

Post by **wesk** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:40 am

Yep they are on my photo storage site under MTURNSIGNALS album

http://wsknettl.mypicgallery.com/

There are hundreds of reference photos there for all to use.

paynzer · Post by **paynzer** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:45 pm

Hey Wes, looking at the diagram of the mseries turn signals, does the bottom wire 22a splice into wire K from the column switch assembly or does it just go to terminal H?

Also, can I just run wires 460 and 461 to my front marker lights to use for turn signals. if so, what happens to circuit 20?

How will the gama goat lights tie into all this?

Thanks again, paynzer.

Post by **wesk** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:50 pm

Don't get too far ahead.

First make the final decision on what turn signal system you are going to use and get it.

Then decide weather you will sacrifice your front BO marker lamps to turn them into turn signals or replace the single filament bulb sockets in them with dual filament bulb sockets or add a separate turn lamp up front on each side.

The gama goat lamps you have, how many lamps are in each light assembly? What are the numbers on each wire coming out of them?

paynzer · Post by **paynzer** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:39 pm

OK, your right.... I am running full speed ahead of myself. I am wanting to keep the jeep as military as possible, so i really don't want to lose the blackout markers. I just want to add the safety upgrades. I have ordered the goat lights from Saturn surplus but do not have them yet. I thought they all had 3 wires, but again I am learning. Just to keep it military am leaning towards the old style military turn signal kit which I was planning on ordering tomorrow. How would I go about finding a dual filament bulb sockets to convert my marker lights? How would the front marker lights be wired if a dual filament socket were used? I only see a connection point for one wire. I really don't want to add any additional lights to the jeep, but I am open for any advice. Thanks, paynzer.

Post by **wesk** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:55 pm

Your local auto parts store will stock many replacement lamp sockets. It's been many years since I fooled with converting single marker lamps to dual filament lamps but I think I recall seeing a how to laying around here somewhere. There are nice amber marker light lens you can use as well. I am not sure where you will find a complete old style kit. Have you looked yet?

paynzer · Post by **paynzer** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:37 pm

Saturn has the signal switch assembly with wires attached and the signal distributor box. I was going to fabricate the wires going to the lights.

If you locate the "how to" on converting to dual filament wiring, please post so I can ponder the option...

I looked at some gallery photos and found an m38 with signal lights mounted to the bumper. Didn't look bad at all... They looked just like the stud-mounted marker lights, but they had the amber lenses in them. I know the additional lights were not stock, but neither are turn signals. So now I am in self-debate over whether or not to add extra lights??? That's what makes this project so awesome...it never ends.

Gonna try to get my wife to show me how to post some pics of my jeep soon.

Will let you know when I chisel it down and have all my stuff ready to proceed. Thanks again, paynzer.

Post by **wesk** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:37 am

You can fabricate a bracket to mount two of these up front using one of the winch mounting holes in the front end of each frame rail so the light sets just above and aft of the bumper.

paynzer · Post by **paynzer** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:14 am

Exactly what I was looking for... I thought about mounting them to the bumper, but would have to drill it... the winch mounting holes are perfect, thanks.

I am ordering these lights and the turn signal stuff today... expensive hobby, but still beats golf !!!