M38A1 Firewall Data Plate

madmike · Post by **madmike** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:18 pm

Another question (I have so many) concerns the plate found in the engine bay. Mine was loose, rather than riveted or screwed or welded and was held in place by a thin wire attached to a nut on the firewall. I see a small hole in the firewall, centered and directly in back of the cylinder head. Is this where the tag would have been affixed and would it have been screwed on? Vertical or horizontal?

If so, I will have to wait until engine removal to address this since there is not enough room to work there now. By the way, the ID number on the tag is MD GS 1476. Is this correct for a 1961 M38 A1? Thank you.

wilfreeman · Post by **wilfreeman** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:37 pm

Is this a rectangle tag, aluminum, approx. 1 3/4" x 3 5/8"? If so, it should be mounted behind the passenger's seat on the wheelwell. If not, I have no idea. The serial number should be MDxxx1476.

Post by **wesk** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:06 pm

The M38A1 serials from 1952 thru 1970 are 5 digit.

Mike's number

MD GS 1476

could refer to anything.

The M38A1 had only two serial plates. One on the dash and one on the right rear wheel house just behind the passenger seat.

Dash serial plate

Patent plate

madmike · Post by **madmike** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:56 am

I thought I read on another post that the tub had a number posted inside the engine bay and on the firewall. This tag would seem to indicate a military body and a government service order with the code 1476. But then my recall ain't what it used to be.

This tag is soft aluminum and about one inch wide by two to three inches long.

Balvar24 · Post by **Balvar24** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:15 am

Commercial Jeeps have a Vin Tag on the firewall near the steering column. Is this what you're looking at?

Post by **wesk** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:45 pm

Civilian jeeps had vin tags on the dash , the right upper firewall and the left upper firewall depending on model. The M38 and M38A1 series jeeps only left Willys with two serial plates. One on the dash and one on the right rear wheel house. Any other tags you find were added later after it left the factory. The engine serial number is on a small pad above the water pump and does not match the VIN.

Balvar24 · Post by **Balvar24** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:25 pm

One note of interest. In Kentucky, I have to have a VIN in order to title and register my Jeep. It cannot be the serial number on my dashplate because there aren't enough characters to be Kentucky legal. The Commonwealth issued me a special KY state VIN for my M38a1 and required it be permanently attached to vehicle, visible thru the windsheild. You're tag could be something similar I guess?

Post by **wesk** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:54 pm

Balvar,

Your issue with KY MVD is exactly why I prefer to use the term serial number when dealing with vehicles older than 1970 and VIN number when dealing with vehicles newer than 1970. Until 1970 all states used a vehicle's chassis or engine serial number for the ID on their titles. When federal law changed to a nationwide VIN system in 70 this all changed. Most young people in this hobby today don't even realize there was ever anything before VIN's.

Many states will add the necessary "0"'s to equal the required VIN digit count on older vehicles.

madmike · Post by **madmike** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:50 pm

Since no one else has this tag, and I have the other two ID plates as mentioned, I will keep this one aside until or if I learn more. This A1 is very original and I happened to think it might also be some kind of Willys assembly line batch tag since it was only wired on. I worked in a defense plant in 1961 (same year as this A1) building M117or 119? tracked personnel carriers. We had soft metal tags for some of the parts wired on in their bins as I recall. But like I said before....my recall is rather suspect these days.

Post by **wesk** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:23 pm

I spent 22 years from 66 in the Air Force and when those factory markings showed up at our bases they were quickly removed so the vehicle could pass inspection.

Balvar24 · Post by **Balvar24** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:34 pm

Am I really that young?

sonny · Post by **sonny** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:02 pm

I just bought another m38 with a Florida title. In FL 1954 and prior, they used the engine number for the vin number. I live in NC and had to have a DMV inspector come out and check the numbers. Even though I have the data plates showing the serial number, I still had to use the engine serial number for my new NC title - I thought that was interesting since my other m38 is titled with the serial number - Sonny