Vent line brass T on firewall M38

whydahdvr · Post by **whydahdvr** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:53 pm

I am working on the venting lines in the engine compartment of my M38 which didn't have the proper vent lines run and connected correctly. I'm also missing the brass fittings. After reading this thread, and perhaps I'm slow too with the manuals and TM's, but I'm confused as to how many fittings and connectors there and what types are where. I have the connector for the wiper system sussed out but the rest are confusing. Would make a lot more sense if I could physically look at a correct engine but any guidance would help.
I've looked over the downloads here for the wiper vacuum system and the fording system but it'sot clicking in my head. Suggestions?

Post by **wesk** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:34 pm

Hire the job out. When a task in a hobby becomes as intimidating and frustrating as you are describing it is best to hire the work out so you can retain a positive outlook towards your hobby.

whydahdvr · Post by **whydahdvr** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:04 am

Thanks for the advice Wes but I'll figure this out. I've already spent too much beyond my budget having someone else do the heavy mechanical repairs. I know it's a simple thing, especially if I could just see the part up close.
I went through the manuals last night and they seemed to click a bit more.

Post by **Ryan_Miller** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:08 pm

What type system are you dealing with?

M38 early or late, I was thinking your system was the late M38.

The late M38 has a brass T for the dash (3/16 double flare on all 3 sides) and one for the Wipers (1/4" double flare on both ends and pipe thread on the middle where the reduced orifice fitting screws in for the distributor vent line).

The late system also has 2 brass 3/16" elbows that are double flared on both ends.

whydahdvr · Post by **whydahdvr** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:19 pm

I know my jeep is a 1952 but since whoever had it before put a CJ serial number on it I don't know just how old. I think I may be able to get the numbers from the engine, but they are very faint. I had Dave Uhrig look at the pictures of it before I bought it and his feeling was a late model M38. If I can make sure I have the right info on the other brass fittings then I can pick up the parts at the same time and get going on running the vacuum lines. Just want to make sure I'm getting the right stuff at one time rather than making multiple trips.
Thanks Ryan!

Post by **wesk** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:05 pm

First sort out what production month year you will model your jeep after. If you have the early bell housing/starter/flywheel, then you may want to go with the early system to save money and if you have the late bell housing/starter/flywheel then you'll save money by going with the late vent system.

Either way once you determine which bell housing you are staying with then select the parts for that system. Simply put if you build an M38 with the small frame starter, bell housing with 3/8" starter mount bolts and two bolt top inspection cover & 124 tooth flywheel then build to the early vent system. If you have the large frame starter (closed nose), late bell housing with 1/2" starter mount bolts and 6 bolt top inspection cover & 129 tooth flywheel then go with the late vent system. Bob Westermans parts list shows early versus late parts so use it accordingly. In the M38 ORD 9 in most cases the early parts are those marked for engine serial number 74419 and back. Late are usually marked for engine serial number 74420 and up.

Post by **Ryan_Miller** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:25 pm

Wes is right.

5/52 at vehicle SN MC53262 is when the big split on parts for the engine occured. Depending on where your jeep lays, what type of restoration you want to do and how much you want to spend.

Due to all the changes it can get confusing. First we need to know what you have and what your end goal is.

whydahdvr · Post by **whydahdvr** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:18 am

Well, I can't read the engine serial number at all. But I started going through a box of parts that came with the jeep. Under a pile of rusting bolts and a dirty rag I found some brass elbow fittings and some sections of brake line that look like they may have been the vent lines that are missing. It will be an archaeology exercise matching things up but I may have the missing pieces already, except for the inverted flare fitting with the 0.040 dia hole in it. Some of the vent lines in place look a bit bigger than the 3/16 line I bought. Were larger lines used or is that a post-military field-expediency solution?
As for the type of restoration, I plan to use the jeep semi-regularly for around town and at a summer house on dirt roads. My intention is a war-time field vehicle so it will have some non-factory modifications; again, field expediency and functionality over show-room quality, just like our vehicles in the field today. I want to have as much as possible operating the way it's supposed to but I'm not going to stress out about NOS parts vs. not having an available part. I want to use the vehicle without worrying about the museum quality aspect, but have it be fully functional and look right, even if not "pretty". Does that make sense?
I have too many other things and hobbies that I do to allow myself to become obsessive over this too.

Cacti_Ken · Post by **Cacti_Ken** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:12 pm

If you don't have the fitting with the .040" hole, one can easily be made by filling a fitting with solder and drilling it with a.040" drill bit.

Take a look at this link:
http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php? ... oad&cid=47

Pick on Vacuum and Fording System for drawing.

There is 1/4" tube from the vacuum pump to the manifold suction, and from the pump to the Tee which routes vacuum from the distributor, and wipers. A short piece of 1/4" tube on the Tee which has the .040 orifice. This short piece connects to the rubber vacuum hose routed to the wipers. Also a short piece of 1/4" tube on the Tee at the air cleaner that rubber vacuum hose connects to for the wipers vent. All vacuum lines to the wipers are 1/4". All the rest of the tubing is 3/16" for the fording system. If I'm wrong someone correct me.

I added some notations on the drawing to help me when I was installing the systems. I can email it to you if it will help. My copy is in my gallery also, but it may not have good resolution for detail.

Ken

whydahdvr · Post by **whydahdvr** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:02 am

Morning all. Sat down to do the brass fitting for the wiper system and it doesn't fit on the T connection that I have for it (original to when I bought the vehicle). However, I found a number of old metal lines and one fit it that was already connected to the drivers' side wiper hose, but its diameter is much larger. I'll see how that affects the motor speed and capability.
From a number of different pictures on this site and in the manuals it seems that there are either two metal lines on the windshield, below the glass, or one - depending. But either way they serve the same purpose it seems.
I've started reconnecting some of the missing vent lines and noticed that I do not have the air control valve set up on the hose to the oil filler tube. Is that an issue? We just ran one rubber hose to the breather tube to the oil filler tube.
I also looked more closely for the engine serial number and it's not stamped on the ledge on the front of the block. I also noticed that the head of the block reads JEEP. Some of my manuals show JEEP and some show WILLYS. What's the difference?
Finally, based on how the vent and vacuum tubes seem to be set up currently I would guess that my M38 is a late model, probably June or July 1952. So, in looking over the schematics on this topic thread, do you need the elbow connector for the Master Cylinder Vent line to the Air Cleaner assembly T? It looks like that's there just because the Dash "T" connection was removed. I could therefore just run the vent line straight to the "T", which is missing, on the Air Cleaner. Does it have to be a "T" or can one be made from putting together other fittings?
The manuals and the schematics on this site and the pictures here are starting to make sense as I begin to see the actual parts and trace how things get reconnected. Thanks for your patience.

Post by **Ryan_Miller** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:25 am

Hey,

The extra elbow on the late setup was more to replace the other firewall(dash) T. If you are not going for an exact resto, you can omit the elbow.

On the oil filler tube valve, if you are not going for an exact resto and are not going to go underwater, then it is not a big issue. During normal operation the valve would be open to allow recirculation of gases.

The windshield wiper system runs best when set up with both vacuum lines, but the return lines are not as important if you are not going underwater.

whydahdvr · Post by **whydahdvr** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:05 am

Thanks for the update Ryan.
While I'm not going for a picture-perfect restoration I do want to have things usable. I highly doubt I'll ever go under water, but you never know! Hey, I may get a crazy idea and want to cross a river or get stuck on a beach and have to get around a point under water.

But those points are good to know so I'll run the line straight without the elbow connection (though I do have extra's) but will install the air ventilation correctly once I have the other bigger parts completed. I'll see how the wiper system works with the larger opening too. One recommendation that I got from someone was to do like what the old Fords had, install a reservoir but I would like to be more historically accurate as well as functional.
In the 18th c. French & Indian War reenacting I've done for almost 10 years we have a 6 foot rule. If it looks right from 6 feet away then go ahead (mostly in terms of sewing clothes and equipment). I'm not planning to take this to shows and restoration competitions so if it works the way it was intended, looks correct from 6 feet away, and I'm having fun, that's the plan. Besides, what would we as soldiers in the field have done too for effecting field repairs and making things easier? Like we always do. Thanks again.
-Josh

Rick_L · Post by **Rick_L** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:12 am

whydahdvr wrote:Morning all. Sat down to do the brass fitting for the wiper system and it doesn't fit on the T connection that I have for it (original to when I bought the vehicle). However, I found a number of old metal lines and one fit it that was already connected to the drivers' side wiper hose, but its diameter is much larger. I'll see how that affects the motor speed and capability.
From a number of different pictures on this site and in the manuals it seems that there are either two metal lines on the windshield, below the glass, or one - depending. But either way they serve the same purpose it seems.
I've started reconnecting some of the missing vent lines and noticed that I do not have the air control valve set up on the hose to the oil filler tube. Is that an issue? We just ran one rubber hose to the breather tube to the oil filler tube.
I also looked more closely for the engine serial number and it's not stamped on the ledge on the front of the block. I also noticed that the head of the block reads JEEP. Some of my manuals show JEEP and some show WILLYS. What's the difference?
Finally, based on how the vent and vacuum tubes seem to be set up currently I would guess that my M38 is a late model, probably June or July 1952. So, in looking over the schematics on this topic thread, do you need the elbow connector for the Master Cylinder Vent line to the Air Cleaner assembly T? It looks like that's there just because the Dash "T" connection was removed. I could therefore just run the vent line straight to the "T", which is missing, on the Air Cleaner. Does it have to be a "T" or can one be made from putting together other fittings?
The manuals and the schematics on this site and the pictures here are starting to make sense as I begin to see the actual parts and trace how things get reconnected. Thanks for your patience.

Josh, if I remember right, you are down near Melrose, right? If you get stuck, and need another M38 to look at, I am just a little north of you in North Andover.

Rick

whydahdvr · Post by **whydahdvr** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:13 am

Thanks Rick, I do want to take you up on that. I am now at the point where I need to see a "complete" M38 to double check some of the things I'm doing and looking at. Are you around this weekend?
-Josh

Rick_L · Post by **Rick_L** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:20 am

Other than making some dump runs on saturday morning, I should be around.