Help with starting my M38A1 =) !!

[SFCKUNERT]

Need some assistance with getting my M38A1 started!

Wes, I took all the advice you gave, thanks again. Should make things run pretty smooth. I started in the troubleshooting section of the manual, as you advised, and got to section 69a(3). I shorted the terminal posts and the started began to spin. But that's all is seemed to do. The teeth didn't seem to be catching anything that would be assisting in the cranking of the engine. Could the ignition swith have anything to do with this? Any help from the crowd would be great. The more I mess with the engine in attempt to get her started before the complete disassembly begins, the more I find brittle cables, wires and the such. The plug wires are very brittle, as are the majority of the wires coming to and from the voltage regulator.
Any advice would be great as I'm sure there are many out there who were once as ansy about getting this process underway as I am. Look forward to the great advice I have recieved with each post. Good Day![/img]

[wesk]

Hello Andrew,
I don't see a 69 a 3 section in the M38A1 troubleshooting guide which actually starts with paragraph 80.

81a says Engine will not turn.
(1) Starter inoperative. Refer to paragraph 85a.

85a offers 6 probable causes but they are for the most part for a starter that does nothing. If you have the original starter it has a foot pedal actuated switch on top of the starter. You should see a plunger sticking thru the firewall that contacts the lever on the switch. Do you have the correct original type 24 volt starter?

[SFCKUNERT]

Wes,
I guess we have different Service Manuals (mine looks to be a reprint from the 70's), but they seem to be saying the same thing.
I do have the original foot pedal actuator, starter, etc. Here are some pics, I hope they show correctly.

The first step my manual says to attempt is to short the two posts on the starter switch.

[wesk]

What is the number of your manual. It is always best if we are on the same page of the same book. You have TM 9-804A which is the first very early M38A1 operators handbook published in July 1952.


Shorting of the two large terminals to each other will only spin the starter and will not move the pinion drive gear towards the flywheel ring gear. That is done with the pedal. If when your pedal is fully depressed the starter does start to turn electrically then the switch/pedal are out of adjustment. With these old girls the body mounts rot away and we often run into a situation where the pedal or switch cannot be adjusted enough to cover the extra distance. With someone on the clutch to disengage it you can then garb the lever on the starter and pull it full forward against the switch. If the starter now spins when the lever is full forward you need to adjust switch. If it does not then you need to replace the switch.

It is very important that the starter not turn electrically untill the lever has moved the starter pinion gear into full engagement with the flywheel ring gear. If you let the starter spin before that happens the teeth will be heavily damaged on both the pinion gear and the ring gear.

[SFCKUNERT]

Wes,
How do I go about adjusting the switch. The floor is not rusted out at all, so an adjustment may help. If that is the problem, it may have saved me the price of replacing the switch which is what I was about to do.

[wesk]

[SFCKUNERT]

Wes,
Well now that I have had more of a chance to dig into my jeep with the information you provided, I have discovered that the engine is in fact siezed. This is not all bad, as I was planning on rebuilding the engine anyway. I will, however, be sending it out to be done, as I don't have all of the specialized tools or experience needed to do it right. So now I need to find a shop willing and able to do the work correctly. Any advice you can provide with the removal and disassembly before it goes to the shop would be greatly appreciated. I will also be posting another topic asking fellow "M"er's for referrals on machine shops within a couple state radius from Ohio. Thanks again for all of your help, and I'll be getting some pictures posted soon.
SFC Andrew Kunert

[skyjeep50]

Andrew -

The M series Jeeps made engine removal pretty easy. If your engine still has the engine lifting loop on top (steel loop shaped like a M) - that is your lifting point. First, unhook the engine from fuel, electrical and mechanical linkages. The grill comes off with a couple bolts then folds down and lifts free (if you have the hinged grill that is). If you want to remove the transmission and engine together, unbolt the transmission (3 rear bolts on the cross member),the engine (unbolt the engine mount pads) and the drive shafts. I would also go ahead and drain the radiator, engine oil and transmission oil to save having to lift the extra weight. Then hook an engine hoist to the rear most loop of lifting loop and ease out the whole drive train. Lift a little, then ease the engine forward or push the Jeep back. It should lift more or less level. The front loop is for lifting the engine level by itself. Very clever design! Then you can strip the engine of the transmission, radiator and accessories. When I had my M38 engine rebuilt the shop asked for the distributor so they could get the timing in the right position before buttoning up the block. They don't need anything else (keep the lifting loop on). Your shop may be OK with more taken apart but its easier to transport an intact engine than a box of loose parts. Good luck with your project!

[wesk]

The very well done detailed version of the above comments is in your M38A1 operator's handbook and service manual. Either one has the data the early TM 9-804A and the later TM 9-8014.

Some important things to do are:

1-Decide how much of the work you will do and the builder will do and get that down on paper and provide a copy to him.

2-Insure the builder has the appropriate overhaul manuals. If not lone him yours.

3-He needs the distributor because the distributor's position is dictated by the oil pump's position relative to the cam drive gear. Manybuilders miss this step in the assembly of a fresh overhaul and these are the type things you want to discuss ahead of time with him.

4-The ideal arrangement has you deliver the assembled engine to him, he rebuilds it, test runs it and returns it to you ready to install. This means he needs the starter, carb, distributor, flywheel, genertaor and pulleys.

5- If you are not using the ideal method above then insist that the entire process be written down on paper about who will do what, what type warranty comes with the work, and that you will be notified before any corrections or repair/replacement actions are taken.

6-We like to think we can save money by parts shopping ourselves but in the long run it is much better to have the builder supply the parts. This way he is forced to warrant his work and the replacements and must take reimbursement for his work to the parts manufacturer/supplier instead of you. Many shops automatically tack a service charge on the bill for owner supplied parts.

7-Take photos of the engine and all accessories before you remove the engine and the accessories. Record all visible part numbers and serial numbers for the engine and all of it's accessories. It helps to take the starter, generator, distributor and regulator to a shop for bench testing to confirm their condition and decide what if any you want overhauled. Plan on overhauling the carb no matter what and plan on a new oil and water pump or rebuilding both. It is absolutely insane to place a newly rebuilt engine into service using an old used oil pump and water pump.