M170 Hood number

[rdsar2k]

I know this has been discussed to death but I gotta do it.
I have heard (and read) that the hood numbers should begin with a 2AXXXXX for an M38a1 in 1955. In all the pictures of vehicles in service (Korean War vintage) I see M38A1's with 20XXXXXX hood numbers. My M170 had a 20319586 on the hood. At steel soldiers I posted what I had found on my jeep back when I first found it (search posts by rdsar2k) and a guy that seemed to be very well versed in contracts user name DDoyle, commented that my hood number should be 1A83XX which I found only one M170 that had a hood number like that and that was 1A8355 at http://www.odcloth.com/1955m170.html. He claims to have writtena book on this kind of stuff.I've been told that my hood number is bogus but I hesitate to change to a 1A83XX with so many conflicting opinions.
See these vintage photos
http://www.m38a1.com/images/Archives/KJeep4.jpg
http://www.m38a1.com/images/Archives/JRa.jpg
http://www.m38a1.com/images/Archives/kent1970.gif
http://www.m38a1.com/images/Archives/d_brown013.JPG

[wesk]

The switch by the Army from the 201xxxxxxxx series hood numbers to the 2A series was about July 1954 for the M38A1's. Keep in mind that the Army did not apply the original hood numbers. Willys did. The Army would let a contract or amend a contract for a specific number of vehicles and they would assign a block of registration numbers to be used with that contracted group of vehicles. Those numbers were painted on the hoods as the jeep rolled out the door irregardless of it's serial number. So if ten M38A1's were pulled off the line to correct something and then re-inserted in the line they would get their hood numbers irregardless of their serial numbers as they rolled out the door late after many succeeding serials had already received theirs.

Here's what we have in the files:

M170 Serials Compiled from the www.willysmjeeps web database and our M38/M38A1/M170/M606/CJV35 web site database. 10-18-2009

Chassis SN DOD_____ Contract #___ Orig Hood# Eng SN

MD-A10161 3-54 unk unk unk
MD-A10773 2-54 unk 2E4781 (2) MD97400
MD-A11493 6-54 DA-33-019-ORD-630 (1) unk MD45005
MD-A11848 4-55 unk unk unk
MD-A11870 4-55 DA-33-019-ORD-630 (1) 20319586 MD33289
MD-A11875 unk unk unk MD89824
MD-A11986 5-55 unk unk unk
MD-A12110 unk ubk unk unk
MD-A12264 6-55 DA-33-019-ORD-1716 2E4777 unk
MD-A12282 6-55 unk unk unk
MD-A12610 12-61 DA-33-019-ORD-??? (1) unk unk
MD-A13182 2-62 unk 1A8272 unk
MD-A13402 2-62 unk 1H4191 unk
MD-A13503 3-62 unk unk unk
MD-A13695 ?-62 DA-33-019-ORD-630 (1) 363038 usmc unk

(1) I believe this contract ended mid 1955. From repop serial plate sales this seems to be the most prolific of all repop and blank NOS sold serial plates. I firmly believe the 12610 and 13695 serial plates were either Army NOS replacements or repops.

(2) This registration number is either a re-assigned one by the Army or an error by a restorer. These type registration numbers do not appear until summer 1955.

[rdsar2k]

I talked to Dean Williams about his VERY nice M170 serial # 11955 and asked where he came up with his hood number. He said some of the maintenance records came with his and it had 1A8459 listed; on his hood when sanded showed the same number. That's probably the most reliable info I am going to find. When I subtract the difference in serial #'s I come up with 1A8374. I found another M170 with serial # 11866 and his hood # is 1A8356; I do not know where he came up with that. When I add the difference with mine I come up with 1A8360 as a hood number for mine. I believe I am with in 14 of the original hood #. I found another with no serial # with hood # 1A8358.

Looks like DDoyle was very astute in predicting a hood # of 1A83XX in the SteelSoldiers.com post back when I first found this thing. As time goes on it seems like more and more of the onion gets peeled. When I look at my posts back when I am a bit embarassed in how nieve I am as I'm sure I will learn more in the future and even this post will seem uneducated.

I think I am going to go with 1A8374; It has the highest degree of accountability based on Dean's.

[wesk]

This topic has come up often but it is worth bringing up here again. The industry accepted practice for fabricating registration numbers when the original number is lost from the vehicle is to determine the rough serial range vs registration number range and use the first digit or so and fill in the rest with your serial number. This helps 10 years down the road when a researcher is looking at your jeep it will be obvious your number was a contrived number and he won't use to skewer the data base of original hood numbers.

These jeeps did not roll off the assembly in absolute serial number order. Also contracts determined which block of registration numbers were used for which block of serial produced so it is common for one group of serials to end at say 20163387 and the next group to start at 20397225. This can cause a spread of several hundred hood numbers between jeeps one serial number apart. And these hood numbers were painted on in the sequence the jeeps went out the door and that was seldom in perfect sequential order.

[rdsar2k]

I do agree with that reasoning. Selfishly I am keen on trying to nail down the exact # to apply but I am forced to ball park it. By having serial #'s before and after mine and date codes before and after mine that are close gives me some confidence in the contract # leading me to the 1A8 number with filling in the last two digits. I had thought I'd use 55 as it is the year but weebee webbing used that on thiers. I believe that M170 originated as a CJ and was made into what it is (not sure where I read that; maybe tribal rumor). Then I though I'd use 70 as in M170 and serial # 11870 but then that maybe obscure also and it is within the 14 number difference from Deans also so I reasoned what the hay 1A8374 has some validity and would be a minor issue if another was discoverd. I would like to find a number that is defensable against all opinions and is accurate to the serial number as that is the only real thing I have. If you view my original title from the service sale (in the photo gallery here) it lists it as a 1952 which really skews things. I could just put US Army but that leaves me wanting.

[wesk]

what the hay 1A8374 has some validity and would be a minor issue if another was discoverd.

Yes, but 5 years from now a poor honest fellow is selling his well documented M170 restoration which came with it's original hood number under all the paint layers and lo and behold this guy you sold yours to is selling and both have the same hood number and both take it in the shorts on the validity issue and both loose money on their sale.

Just a view from both sides of the fence her!

[rdsar2k]

I could use 1A8870. What do you think?

[wesk]

That would be perfect cause by using at least three numbers from your serial anyone will notice that right off.