Painting the frame

Post by **wesk** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:16 pm

24087 would only be correct on a field repaint by the Army. Willys and Kaiser used the 2430 throughout production. The M715 came with 24087 from Kaiser in 66-68.

RimfireJim · Post by **RimfireJim** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:59 pm

I don't believe in the "just paint over the rust" products. No matter how good the film, that's akin to poor surface prep = poor adhesion.

Also would never powder coat a frame. First, it would never look right, and secondly, too much chance of big chunks flaking off. Maybe, like you said, if the surface prep is done right it will be good, but I've seen to many PC jobs fail long term.

I vote for blasting (not necessarily sand - there are a lot of other media choices - but a frame is heavy gauge and not prone to heat distortion like sheet metal) followed by phosphoric acid to convert any rust the blasting missed, followed by epoxy primer and top coats. You don't need a regular primer or a primer/surfacer under the top coats for chassis parts like you would for body panels.

Alternative to blasting: electrolytic rust removal http://www.antique-engines.com/electrol.asp (Yes, you could do something as large as a frame - see http://www.antique-engines.com/trailer-electrolysis.htm

The tech sheet for PPG DX1791 Self Etching Wash Primer states that metal treatments (phosphoric acid) are NOT REQUIRED OR ADVISABLE and that it should not be used over media blasted steel. (emphasis PPG's)

All the guys I know around here in the old car hobby, many of whom have been at it for years and years, use epoxy primer (PPG DPLF or equivalent) which is extremely versatile in terms of compatible surfaces. It's one thing to be painting fresh, bare metal in a factory, and another to be working with metal that, despite your best prep efforts, won't ever be as good as new. For me, the incremental cost of using epoxy primer is insignificant relative to all the time involved in the project and given the benefits, I don't see any reason not to use it.

Jim

Oldsalt · Post by **Oldsalt** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:54 am

Does anyone know where I can find the technical specs on Gillespie paints? Stuff like recoat times and preparation requirements, as well as msds info? Particularly for the Red Oxide primer. I can't find a website for Gillespie and the places selling it like AJP don't have that much info.

Post by **wesk** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:47 am

http://www.armyjeepparts.com/order_page ... ttom_1.htm

Then there's always the horse's mouth so to speak:

Gillespie Coatings Inc
211 Gum Springs Rd
Longview, TX 75602
(903) 753-0393

Coatings-Protective, Paint-Wholesale & Manufacturers, Paint Manufacturing Equipment & Supplies, Painting-Production
In Business Since 1955
Products/Services
Transportation, Equipment & Maintenance Coatings, Distributor of Ameron

Extra Phones/Fax
TollFree: (800) 451-0563
Fax: (903) 757-7861

Oldsalt · Post by **Oldsalt** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:29 am

Thanks Wes,

I guess I was hoping for official specs from Gillespie. This listing on AJP says the paint should be reduced with synthetic enamel reducer 2:1 but on the Rapco parts page they say it should be thinned 4:1 with Xylene.

Also, they don't list anything for recommended preparation. Like does it need sanding between coats, or does bare metal need to be prep'd first. I've been looking at various paints at auto paint stores, and they are all so different. I found some Dupont Lacquer based Red Oxide for instance that mentions using metal prep on bare metal. The Red Oxide at Tractor Supply that someone mentioned in one of these threads also seems to require some sort of prep on bare metal but does not need thinning. There are so many different paints and each has its own requirements that I want to be as prepared as possible. I suspect that since the GCI red oxide is a high zinc paint, it should probably be painted directly on the bare metal, but I want to be sure. If I need to use etching primer first I need to know.

I've ordered some GCI paint for my frame now. Hopefully it will have the info in with the order. If not, I may use the contact info you posted to contact them.

Thanks again.

Post by **wesk** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:22 am

I would always contact the manufacturer directly either via their web site or their phone before committing to any product. I get the manufacturer's data first. Then I air any questions I have remaining on a related web site. Then I buy. Any other approach is akin to "Russian Roulette"

Oldsalt · Post by **Oldsalt** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:22 pm

Well I've read enough opinions to be fairly sure I'm not commiting suicide with this paint. I just want to be sure that once I have it, I apply it correctly. At some point I have to quit reading about everyone elses experiences and go have some of my own.

Thanks everyone

Zane · Post by **Zane** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:52 am

I agree with the Major, sandblasting is the only way to do it right, if you wire brush or sand over pits and crevices the rust will be popping back thru the paint in no time at all, the primer and paint sticks so much better to a sandblasted surface. If you want a professional end result thats going to last and stay nice I highly reccomend sandblasting.

Oldsalt · Post by **Oldsalt** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:00 am

Just thought I'd update folks on what I've found with Gillespie paints. I called the manufacturer to ask about thinning requirements and other prep questions.

I was told that:
sandblasting is the preferred method of preparation.
no metal prep coating was necessary between primer and bare metal
thin with Xylene UP TO 20% on both the primer and topcoat.

And finally I asked about how long could I wait between primer and top coat. I didn't get a very firm answer on that. Just the minimum time listed on the can.

53a1 · Post by **53a1** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:15 am

If I thinned my can to 20% I'd be spraying pure thinner.

Post by **wesk** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:33 am

thin with Xylene UP TO 20% on both the primer and topcoat.

If I thinned my can to 20% I'd be spraying pure thinner.

I don't think there's any danger of that happening. The qualifier in the first statement is "Up to 20%" making 20% the max thinner ratio allowed. It all depends on original consistency of the paint, the current temp/humidity and the type equipment in use.

Oldsalt · Post by **Oldsalt** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:23 pm

Wes, you certainly have it correct as I understood the sales person.

By my count, thinning to 20% would be 4 parts paint and 1 part thinner. 20% being 1/5th of 100%. 4/5th paint plus 1/5th thinner = 5/5ths or 100%.

Sorry if my previous post caused some confusion.