Body work - whats first?

Oldsalt · Post by **Oldsalt** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:07 pm

I'm curious how some of you expert restorers start when restoring a body. Would you recommend sand blasting first and then tackling the sheetmetal work? Or other way around? I know any kind of welding is easier when the metal is very clean.

This M38A1 I'm starting on doesn't have very much paint but there is quite a bit of surface rust underneath and some significant corrosion built up between different panels, where they come together. Enough to push them apart in places. It will have to be cleaned out to get the panel joins back together. The front floor panels and hat channels will need some heavy work too. So I'm wondering if I would be better off cleaning it up first. Any tips on how you get started would be appreciated.

Russell

Post by **wesk** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:17 pm

As with any major restoration undertaking a thorough evaluation is the absolute must. You cannot thoroughly evaluate a body covered with paint.

So yes is the correct answer. Remove the paint and bondo and evaluate just how much work will be needed, what parts will be needed and where to start.

Your choice of sand is not the best choice. It will warp body tin. It's ok for the frame and heavy castings like the axles and tranny. The body sheet metal needs a more tender approach Choices are:

Chemical stripping.
Electro-chemical stripping
soda blasting
glass bead blasting

rgmutchler · Post by **rgmutchler** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:49 pm

Oldsalt,
I have an M38 that I am redoing. I have been researching stripping the body and treating the rust. I don't want to do the sand blasting and am afraid of the chemical stripping from the things I have heard about the problems with neutralizing the acid they use. I have found two places that do the stripping and the rust treatment. One is in Jackson Ms and is Metal Finishings.com. They do a chemical strip and then do electrolysis and then will prime the tub etc if you want. I got a tenative quote and they were pretty expensive, around $700 to strip and treat and $1000 to prime.
The other place is in Arlington, TX. Metalrehab.com. I got a quote of 600 to strip and treat the rust on the tub, that was 550 plus a 10% materials charge. They then wanted an addition $500 to prime. They will spray the body with a preservative if you don't want them to prime. It seems to me that this deal is about the cost of sand, soda, media, type blasting but also includes the rust treatment.
I hope this gives you some info and getting your body ready to work on. Where in Tx are you located? I am near College Station.
If there are some posts that I sent that aren't complete sorry about that but I pressed the wrong key a few times when I was writing this.

OKCM38CDN · Post by **OKCM38CDN** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:57 pm

I have had both of the bodies of my jeeps ('52 M-38CDN and '51 Willys Station Wagon) sand blasted with sand... the secret is to use lower pressure and blast at an angle to reduce the heat causing the warping induced by sanblasting.

The cost of the Wagon was $400; I then had to prime it at a cost of time and $60 for the primer...

This was a small price to pay to get to look at all the bad spot I need to repair...

I use a company called CleanIt here in Oklahoma City, they have blasted quite a few autos and jeeps in their time...

Do your homework and a solution will come about...

Hope this helps...

Post by **wesk** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:52 pm

The key to Hal's use of sand was he did it himself. When you drop a tub at a commercial sand blaster and leave they do it their way. It's on the clock with them.

Oldsalt · Post by **Oldsalt** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:07 pm

Hey thanks for the answers. I pretty much plan on doing all the work myself on this jeep. I look at it as a learning experience as much as anything else. I appreciate the ideas, though.

I'm in Kerrville, by the way.

BullRun · Post by **BullRun** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:33 pm

Make yourself a rotisserie. If you have to do extensive bodywork it is the best method. You can repair the body on the chassis keeping everything in alignment and disassemble as you get things fixed. This way body warping and misalinements from the welding and body repair process are avoided.

major519 · Post by **major519** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:55 pm

There is nothing wrong with sandblasting...
The key is to find a guy experienced in bodies. Most reputable bodymen can do it or recommend someone who can.

pickle · Post by **pickle** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:35 pm

BullRun wrote:Make yourself a rotisserie. If you have to do extensive bodywork it is the best method. You can repair the body on the chassis keeping everything in alignment and disassemble as you get things fixed. This way body warping and misalinements from the welding and body repair process are avoided.

...I heard someone else mention this before, and I am still a little foggy as to how one would replace floor panels on a tub if it is still on a chassis and on the rotisserie? I can see cross bracing, and the benefits of the rotisserie, and on the frame. thanks.[/b]

idiocrates · Post by **idiocrates** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:35 am

Just to add my $.02 worth.....I had a really difficult time finding anybody who would do sandblasting in my area of central Texas. They all cited environmental and health related issues with the process and had all but dropped the practice. I finally found a mobile guy who will come to your location and sand or soda blast at your descretion. He basically told me soda blasting is fantastic on paint but does almost nothing for rust. Sand blasting will work on either paint or rust but must be controlled very closely to prevent the over-heating and warping Mr. K was referring to. Whichever method you use you must be prepared to clean and put some kind of primer on the bare metal immediately as flash oxidation will become a serious problem otherwise. One thing to note....soda blasting does leave behind a powdery residue that will prevent this flash oxidation for a few days but even it will fall off in time and allow the rusting to begin.

On my tub I was originally going to have the entire thing sand and soda blasted just because there were so many places I couldn't easily get to to remove the paint mechanically. After I got started cutting out bad spots in the floors and sides and wheelhouses and end panel I realized there wasn't enough stuff left to soda blast to make it worth while to bring in the mobile guy so I just bit the bullet and finished removing the old paint, bondo, and rust the old fashioned way....with gorilla hair and a grinder.

rgmutchler · Post by **rgmutchler** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:24 pm

Sand/media/soda blasting are all good and I have used them on other restorations including a 55 chevy and a 67 camero. But I wish I had had available some of the newer or at least becoming more common stripping options available. Especially the rust removals whether by electolysis or chemical means. These things are at least 60 years old or more in the case of the models before the M38 and these processes are going to get where no blaster can reach. You might end up finding more rust in crevices etc that you didn't know you had but I would rather find out now rather than a few years after I put all the work into fixing one of these things up.
I like to do it my self but considering that the costs I have been getting on some of these processes they are competitive with the cost of sand blasting and do more these might be one of those things that is worth hiring out.

Bullrun made the comment about a rotisserie which is a good idea but Pickle brings up my question. How do you use a rotisserie when you are replacing the floor panals.

BullRun · Post by **BullRun** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:38 pm

The rotisserrie is attached at either end of the chassis. You have to make sure that the body is securly attached to the chassis before you turn the contraption onto its side. But they work great. The hardest part is getting the right balance to everything so the body will spin gently versus violently.

The great thing about a rotisserie is you can turn the body around and work on the "inside" as well as the outside at the same time.

The most important thing is you will not blow your back out. Or at least the chance of it happening will be greatly reduced.

You can make a professional quality rotisserie for about $400 to $500. The most expensive thing are the wheels. They need to be about 12" inflatable caster wheels if you have a rough floor or work outside. If inside on a concrete floor steel caster wheels will work.

BullRun · Post by **BullRun** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:48 pm

When the old floor pans are cut out just fit in the new ones. Bolt them in place so you have the correct registration and alignment with surrounding metal and weld. A greatly over simplified description but the rotisserie doesnt really do anything here accept allow everything to be flipped onto the side to allow access to the underside.

Post by **wesk** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:19 pm

For large floor panel replacements it is easier to mount only the tub in the rotisserie and yes it will need bracing while the floors are out but you will have unobstructed access to the frame side of the tub.

Same with overhauling the frame. It alone in the rotisserie is a lot easier to manage and offers the best unobstructed access.

Normally folks only use the rotisserie with the tub and frame together during final assembly.

BullRun · Post by **BullRun** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:03 am

As a certified welder this is how I repair a jeep body. I have an M38A1 jeep chassis and body mounted on a rotisserie right now. I start with that and repair and disassemble till all I have left is the frame on the rotisserie. Working this way I know that it will all fit back together because of the systematic way in which it is repaired. This includes all the body work too which I do myself. My method may be unconventional from most restorers but man is it accurate. My jeep bodies look new when I get done.

Once the body is disassembled all measurement and reference points for repair are lost. And there are a lot that are needed for serious repair.

This is the way I work as it makes the odds of heat distortion or warping minimal.

A rotisserie is only a giant welding jig.

I am very meticulous in my work. But I have the training and experience too. For others I can only say whatever works for you is the way to go.