M38a1 Top Rod supports & Fording kit questions

rdsar2k · Post by **rdsar2k** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:30 am

I recieved no love in my last post so I must be asking too much on the M170 specifics. I'll refocus on the M38A1 and adapt.

Does anyone have a closeup picture of the top rod chain and pin and a close up of them installed on an M38a1? I have to make these for an M170 and all the pics I find are at a distance with no detail.

I know this next request has been asked before but I can't see the details I need to know in any pic. I bought an M38A1 fording kit from MidwestMil. It came with the three clamps for the intake, intake hose, Hood bracket, Fender bracket, intake hose support rod, exhaust pipe, exhaust pipe bracket, gasket, hose to precleaner adapter, and three spacers. I am guessing that the three spacers are for the intake hose clamps and go between the clamps to prevent over tightening them. An installation instruction would be awesome! Guildance of any will really help. Parts list for the kit would also help so I can get the right bolts & washers & hose clamps for the pre cleaner to hose adapter.

evanso1975 · Post by **evanso1975** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:11 am

This is for the M38, but the A1 should be similar:

http://willysmjeeps.com/downloads/Fording.install.pdf

The picture on the second page seems to show a spacer between the two halves of one hose clamp, so looks like you guessed right. Looks to be a parts list below it.

Wbr,
Owen.

rdsar2k · Post by **rdsar2k** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:20 am

Thanks
I don't know how I missed that one. Can't read it as it's too fuzzy but I get the gist. Confirms the spacers. Hopefully the M38a1 version intake pipe support just bolts up to the lower hinge bolt ( removing the lower hinge bolt first) without a spacer between the intake pipe support and the hinge.

Post by **wesk** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:37 pm

That"s for the M38. M170's were not equipped for fording and the deep water kits were rarely if ever fitted to the M170. Same with M38A1's after 1953 unless they were used by the USMC.

WeeBee has some very good detailed photos of the top interior and hradware on their canvas web site. There's at least 20 some photo there.

Notice the absence of a deep water fording kit?

This guy fas the deep water kit

Looks like Gary Keating has some very detailed photos:

Here's another photo link:
http://forum.usedcarsplus.com/classic-c ... 80829.html

rdsar2k · Post by **rdsar2k** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:31 am

Wes
I appreciate the links & pics.

The only need I have now is the top retainer pins/chains supplier and a picture. No link or search has a close up picture of them. The weebee's M170 gives me an across the street view.

If someone would provide a closeup I would be indebted. Thanks in advance.

rdsar2k · Post by **rdsar2k** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:09 am

Dave at WeeBee Webbing talked me thru it. The M170 is different than the M38 or the M38A1. He was very articulate in describing what to do. The venders in this hobby are really awesome!

Post by **wesk** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:25 pm

Did he satisfy your questions on the chains and pins? Did he give you a closeup photo of them?

rdsar2k · Post by **rdsar2k** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:53 am

Dave was very patient and desriptive; no pictures. I'll try to write what he told me and post pics when I'm done.
The forward bow has eyelets, one on each side. They look like a round hole with a slot. Bend a 3/8" rod 90° with an inch of rod (roughly)on the short lenth. Drill a hole for a 1/8" roll pin on the short end. The bow eylets allow the pinned rod to drop thu when the pin aligns with the slots. Orientate the pin so that the rod is perpendicular to the jeep when it aligns to the eylet on the bow. Rotate the bow forward towards the windshield and bend another 90° bend towards the inside of the jeep to align with the rod retainer on the windshield (It is the same as used on the M38A1). cut off excess leaving, again about an inch. Drill the short end with a 1/8" hole. Use a diaper type pin retainer ( similar to the type used as the clevis pin retainer). Drill a hole in the top rod for the diaper pin safety chain by locating an area that does not interfear with the canvas and us a cotter pin to secure the chain to the rod (fabricators discretion). Make the drop rods as you would for a M38a1 by welding a washer or a 7/16" square nut on the top rod.

rdsar2k · Post by **rdsar2k** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:27 pm

I went to the local hardware store to find the "plumbers chain" for the diaper pins today. Home Depot and Lowes didn't carry. The mom and pop hardware store had it. Same as used all over the Jeep for pin retainers. So I was quite happy as I bought 8 ft of it. Turned around and staring me in the face was a roll of 7/32" vacuum hose (un-reinforced) for $.40 a ft. So I bought what was on the roll; 14 ft. Yea! I have finished sanding prepping and painting my last parts. The footman loops for holding the sides of the canvas top on the M170 are special tall loops that I was unable to locate. They use the same spacing as the standard 1" webbing loop but are extra tall and tilt away from the body of the Jeep. I used part # WF901-16x10 from this place:
http://www.albest.com/product.asp?Func= ... ous&Page=2

I screwed the loop to some nuts installed in the jaws on my vice, heated them up and bent them out slightly to allow the strap to fit behind then under the loop. Worked very well.

By the way the part # WF901-16x5 on the same page is a very close to original footman loop for the standard 1" common footman. It has the higher height that the originals have.

keats · Post by **keats** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:21 pm

Go to my photo Gallery on page one "Gary Keating" as I have downloaded some detailed photos of my M170 drivers side top side rod.

rdsar2k · Post by **rdsar2k** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:52 pm

keats wrote:Go to my photo Gallery on page one "Gary Keating" as I have downloaded some detailed photos of my M170 drivers side top side rod.

Now THAT is totally what I needed!. I just measured and guesstimated and came up to .25" of your measurements. The detail shots are priceless. If you don't mind I am going to take a copy for my personal stash. I mean that is really appreciated! Thanks.

rdsar2k · Post by **rdsar2k** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:55 am

Even a blind squirrel get an acorn every once in a while. I mounted my fording kit intake support by attaching the upper bolt and swinging the bottom to align it where it looked correct. I pilot drilled the hole then got the larger bit of the size needed to fit the bolt. As it cut thru the sheet metal it suddenly hit something solid on the other side. I peeked on the inside and low and behold there is a welded on cage nut there. My hole was in perfect alignment with it! Cleaned the threads and screwed in the lower bolt. Never suspected that there was already a nut in place for the suppert pipe. It sure would hurt if I drilled and it wasn't in alignment. Would have bothered me to no end. I remember wondering, after seeing when working on the body, what it was for. Completely forgot about it.

Post by **wesk** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:03 am

Shawn,

Post a photo of the interior location of the weld nut.

keats · Post by **keats** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:33 pm

There was a knockout plug installed usually at the bottom bolt site. You can just see it in the photo below and to the rear of the auxiliary mount.

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gall ... as_can.jpg

rdsar2k · Post by **rdsar2k** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:09 am

Pics of support outside and inside cage nut location.

M38a1 Top Rod supports & Fording kit questions

M38a1 Top Rod supports & Fording kit questions

M38

Rod retainers

M10 Top Rods

M170 Door rods

Safety chain and pin

M170 Top Rod

M170 Fording Kit

Intake support Fording