"short" Bumper on M38A1

timjuhl · Post by **timjuhl** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:26 am

Question - I know that the earliest M38A1's shipped with shorter front bumpers than what later became standard. I have a 10/52 rolling chassis that has a 46.5 inch bumper and I'm wondering if it could be original. I heard that the "short" bumpers were leftovers from M38 production and would have a hole in the center for a crank. My bumper has no such hole.

Appreciate the help!

Tim

Post by **wesk** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:04 am

The M38 bumper is 46". You can spot them easily on the jeep. The narrow bumper barely extends onto the middle of the tire and the wide bumper goes out to the outboard edge of the tire.

Narrow

Wide

ChiGuy82 · Post by **ChiGuy82** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:20 pm

Tim,
I have an "oldest" model M38A1 and I just ordered the "right" replacement part for it. I have the M38 bumper with the crank hole on it and the company I bought the replacement bumper from told me they had only one size for the M38A1 bumper.
As you can see from the pictures, I have to send it back to the company and get a M38 bumper for my M38A1. I think I might have to drill some holes for it to attach it but Im sure it will work.
Mike

[/img]http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... _photo.php[/img]

ChiGuy82 · Post by **ChiGuy82** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:27 pm

Tim,
Sorry, here are the pics:

ChiGuy82 · Post by **ChiGuy82** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:38 pm

Tim,
Also, the my M38A1 I took the original bumper off of is a 1952 M38A1 with the unsupported hinged grill, grooved fenders and short bumper. I have no idea when it was made but its number is MD 10015. Is there a wedsite that might tell me when it was manufactured so I can get the new data plates when the time comes?

Thanks
Mike

timjuhl · Post by **timjuhl** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:27 pm

Mike,
Thanks for the info and pix. I don't know how you'd find the month your Jeep was built - maybe Wes can help out. Mine is SN 27298 and it was built in 10/52 for the Navy.

My bumper lacks the crank hole but it is 46 inches long. It is riveted to the frame which leads me to think it is original. I believe some short bumpers got out the door without the hole but cannot be sure.

I've included a pix of my bumper - I suspect the license plate bracket is an add-on.

Tim

[/img]

Post by **wesk** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:13 pm

Tim,

I'll bet a good sand blasting and inspection of your bumper will reveal that the wood bolt holes between the frame rails and the hand crank hole have been welded shut.

timjuhl · Post by **timjuhl** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:38 pm

Wes,

I'll have to give that a close looksee. Seems like it would be going to a lot of trouble to weld the holes shut but who knows?

Tim

bluewatersailor · Post by **bluewatersailor** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:34 am

I just posted a photo (Page 9 of Gallery) of the short bumper of my M38A1 (MD26784) which, according to the data plate, was delivered 10/1952 to the Marine Corps. Although I have not sanded it down to bare metal, from running my fingers across the center, I find no suggestion that a hole has been welded shut. BTW, I bought this from a US Army depot, so would exclude that Bubba has gotten to the bumper.

timjuhl · Post by **timjuhl** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:42 am

Bluewatersailor,

Very interesting.... The pix of your "short" bumper matches mine pretty well as far as the holes in the front.

On the site http://www.m38a1.com/Models/models_original.htm under "early generation 1" there is a pix showing a jeep with the short bumper that does not have the hole.

Our Jeeps are 514 vehicles apart in serial number so it's looking to me that at least some bumpers were used that did not have the hole for the crank. Maybe we should run a poll of M38A1 owners with "short" bumpers and get an idea of the percentage of each type in the Jeep population.

Tim

Post by **wesk** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:15 pm

My bumper lacks the crank hole but it is 46 inches long. It is riveted to the frame which leads me to think it is original.

Before we do all of that see if we can figure out why your bumper is riveted onsince we all know all military Willys universal jeep frames bolted the front bumpers on.

I bought this from a US Army depot, so would exclude that Bubba has gotten to the bumper.

Many long term in service survivors were maintained after the 80's with civilian parts. So it could be a case of military bubbaism.

bluewatersailor · Post by **bluewatersailor** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:37 pm

It may be helpful to know that I bought the Jeep from Uncle Sam in early 1970. And, as expected, the bumper is bolted on (2 through the front and 2 through the bottom).

Post by **wesk** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:20 pm

There's also one on top each side that go through the lift ring bracket.

Mike the bumper in the top of your photos is a civilian CJ5 bumper with the slots fro the civvy license plate.

I am still researching the bumper hole theories. I am looking for the factory blueprint for the 7372818 / WO 801386 bumper bar. It may well be that there was a change to the blueprint without a part number change. Also it is possible that the older M38 bumper bar 7372818 could have been withdrawn from supply to replace a later M38A1 unit in the field.

There still is no doubt in my mind that a riveted on M38 or M38A1 or M170 front bumper was a field installation or a CJ frame.

Post by **wesk** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:18 pm

Ok, the final definitive word. After a thorough review of the Willys drawing 801386 dated Jan 1951 with revisions thru 1972 the wood bolt holes and the crank hole located between the frame rails were deleted July 9, 1952. So with that in mind and the normal delay for this change to reach the production floor it is most likely that at least the first few M38A1's left Willys with the M38 front bumper with the holes and that the rest thru the introduction of the 808969 bumper in October 1952 were without holes.

With this info and knowing any bumpers replaced in the field would have used up any 801386 bumpers remaining in military stocks with or without holes it stands to reason that there will be many M38's, M38A1's and M170's that may be carrying any of three bumper styles. M38 801386 with ot without the holes and the 808969 wide bumper. Keep in mind that the military supply system thru normal depletion and supercedure issued all three bumpers over the years to all three jeeps.

So based on this information the factory restored jeeps would have left Willys thus:

M38 - All production 801386 with holes.
M38A1 - Possibly only part of early July 1952 801386 with holes.
M38A1 - Late Jul 1952 thru October 1952 with 801386 with no hole between the frame rails.
M38A1 and M170 - After October 1952 with the new wide bumper 808969.

In a motor pool class resto any of the three bumpers would work after October 1952.

Keep in mind you loose the wood reinforcement used on the M38 bumper when you use the 2nd and 3rd bumpers.

"short" Bumper on M38A1

"short" Bumper on M38A1

M38A1 Short bumper

short bumper

SHORT BUMPER ON MD26784 DELIVERED 10/1952

short bumper

BUBBA BUMPER??