What are these holes?

Post by **wesk** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:59 pm

Thank you. You make a very intereesting point. If I understand correctly the Ford Canada factory confirmed for you that the extinquishers were not installed in the factory but that they were field installed by the Canadian miltary? If so then a factory class restoration of any CDN unit would correctly omit the extinquisher? And a motor pool class CDN would of couse include the extinquisher?

Headcase · Post by **Headcase** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:27 am

Um I guess but I wonder how many people actually want a bare bones factory issued jeep? That would be a non military issue...?
The forums alone are a testiment to people or persons wanting to get and restore a vehicle to the military standard and not a plain jane no nonsense jeep.
So yes they never came with a fire extinguisher. Few new cars if any do today. They also did not come with a Machine gun mount for a browning 50 cal. either...LOL! But people still want to put them on thier jeeps no?
LOL Have a great time restoring.

Post by **wesk** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:03 am

how many people actually want a bare bones factory issued jeep?

Actually quite a few. Just review the MVPA judging results for the last 30 years. The factory original class has always been in their rules in one form or another. Granted, Motor Pool class restos and driver's are more common and usually less painful in both time and money.

Headcase · Post by **Headcase** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:37 am

Apples and Oranges Wes

Respectfully Case

whydahdvr · Post by **whydahdvr** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:44 am

For myself and I would guess most of the folks here we enjoy using the jeeps as much or more than the restoration. I think some folks here like to take them to shows but the jeeps are much more fun being used as they were intended to be used.
For myself, it's very much a field-modified vehicle - with under the hood or hidden stuff replacing factory original to maintain functionality over originality. I've got what I would probably have put on my jeep as a deployed soldier - extra bags and pouches, the seats, limited bright-work painting, canvas bags and water carriers, etc., similar to what was done to jeeps and vehicles in WWII. But that's me so ultimately it's whatever you want to do with your vehicle.
Just thought I would share....

timjuhl · Post by **timjuhl** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:47 pm

To each his own. In my case, my Jeep will look great rolling by in a parade. At a car show where there are no other Military Jeeps it will be a standout! I have no interest in trying to join the rarified level of those trying to produce perfect factory or motor pool restorations. I respect them for doing so but I'm more interested in driving my Jeep than showing it off. I've also already spent far more than I planned and have to be satisfied with doing the best I can under the circumstances.

I'm the same way with my airplane.... it is 65 years old and still going strong. It is covered with modern fabrics, has a GPS and com radio, has a starter and hydraulic brakes and an upgraded engine... all things that the original didn't have but which make it safer and easier to maintain today. The paint job also is not "correct" but more representative of the type. I enjoy the heck out of it but would never try to pass it off as a true restoration.

I've only been part of the Jeep community for a year but I have to tell you that 1.) I enjoy working on old Jeeps because I can understand the systems and actually make repairs! Any day I can learn something new is a great day! 2.) I enjoy being able to preserve a little slice of history and get a big kick out of talking with vets who come by to take a look at my Jeep. 3.) I have met some truly wonderful and helpful people in the Jeep community and feel a great sense of belonging. It seems like every time I need something there is someone who will step up to give me a hand so thanks to you all.

Tim

Post by **wesk** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:39 pm

Tim,

It was very good of you to make the sidetracking of your post agreeable to you. I hope all members will keep in mind that my responses always are meant to meet the needs of the entire community not just one type of restorer. This is why I try to narrow the scope of my responses to the question that was asked. When the track of the post is opened to an area not included in the original question and that opening had no actual sound bases for the information presented I have no choice except to reply with the info that makes the preceding comments fit correctly in the subject of the original post. In this case your direction is motor pools or driver and at the same time for the more detail oriented member they are not mislead into thinking the factory actually supplied fire extinquishers when they clearly did not. What usually happens when you leave a piece of mis-information lying here it gets referred to as gospel a few months from now. And then it takes another 10 pages of posting to clear it up.

timjuhl · Post by **timjuhl** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:35 am

Wes, you have to accept the fact that people look to you as an incredible source of information on the M-Jeeps so it's somewhat like what the politicians are facing during election season. Every word is scrutinized and sometimes debated

No wonder you pick your words carefully.

As long as discussions are done in a civil manner I think we all learn. It is up to each individual to draw their own conclusions and make their own decisions as to how to proceed. That's all part of the fun!

Like I said, every day that I learn something new is a great day, and I learn a lot from this site.

Tim

Scrapyard · Post by **Scrapyard** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:41 pm

I have a similar problem with the identification of the holes in my rear fenders.

Is there a manual that shows the "original holes" and is it possible to identify any equipment, which had been mounted in this M38a1? Maybe a radio set, as the rear fender has some dents which might come from some heavy weight.

Driver side:

Passenger site:
http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gall ... .sized.jpg

Location of the fire extingusisher bracket (Jeep is ex-Greek army):
http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gall ... .sized.jpg

Thanks

Oliver

ECVJeeps · Post by **ECVJeeps** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:03 am

Ryan Miller's book on the M38 is an excellent source of information on hole locations. I am useing it almost every night in the restoration of my M38CDN.
I actually just welded a few (not as many as you) holes in both rear fenders.
Also you could check in Wes's pictures for the answer.

Post by **wesk** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:27 am

There is not a manual dedicated specifically to hole locations. I have gleaned most of my info from various M38A1 manuals and also from MWO's and TB's published later. The tops of the rear fenders are simple and straight forward.

Usually those holes running in a line left to right on top of the rear fenders and about 24" apart between the front and rear set are for the radio mounts.

Fire extinquisher mountings were not done by Willys. So they can only be determined from what you find on the jeep and from period correct photos.

ECVJeeps · Post by **ECVJeeps** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:47 am

Wes, when were the tail light splash panel holes you have marked on the top of the fender added? On all the M38's that I have worked on or looked at have the bolts for that panel on the inside of the fender and the outside of the tub.
Was that a later version or a very early version?

Post by **wesk** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:51 am

This jeep being discussed is an M38A1

You can see one of the two bolt heads in this photo

ECVJeeps · Post by **ECVJeeps** » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:06 am

Well, that makes a lot more sense then. I was starting to get worried that I was missing some holes in my inner fender.
My bad.

What are these holes?

class...

plain janes...?

Is it Original?

What to post