Hawkshadow's '52 M38CDN

Hawkshadow · Post by **Hawkshadow** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:27 pm

<Today, 12 Jan 2013>

I am slowly stockpiling parts for the rebuild so that we can get to re-assembly as quick as possible. Here are a couple of pictures of my axle rebuild kits which I ordered up from Kaiserwillys.com down in the states. The parts are all new and are a mix of production, mostly coming from Canada, the US, and Japan, with a few from China.

I will be heading up in the next week or so to pick up my re-built engine, and the new body assembly at Willys Acres. I have also replaced the exhaust manifold as, in addition to that snapped bolt, the heat riser was seized which caused cracks in the manifold.

My plan going forward at this point is a 30% overdrive, 11" drum brake upgrade, dual master cylinder, tranny and T-case rebuild kits from "Hermtheoverdriveguy" in the states. I have also initiated dialogue with a transmission shop here in Toronto about transmission work. I'm not afraid of doing things my self, but there are some areas like a transmission where it's worth the cost comparison of professional work and a warranty. The current quote is ~$400 if I provide the parts, + sandblasting. Some members who posted earlier offered assistance with transmission, I would appreciate the advice!!

Well gents, that's where I am up until today. Any and all input is greatly appreciated and I look forward to it!

Post by **wesk** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:36 pm

Looks like the transfer is civvy unit (note non threaded shifter stalk pivot pin) and the tranny may also be civvy based on not seeing an integral rubber boot in the tower.

The water pump is off a M38A1 set up for the 100 amp electrical system. That three groove pulley has significant value to a 100 amp jeep restorer. Either way I would not bet on the shaft seal in that pump after the chemicals and the painting.

Curious what that setup was on top the left rear quarter. Looked like a support bracket for something and a license plate light pointing upward towards it.

Post by **Ryan_Miller** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:44 pm

Nice build timeline and photos!

You are making great progress.

Interested to see what you think of the new tub. They make all kinds of panels and tubs now and I have heard quality has improved.

Be sure to have the water pump rebuilt - it is not that much. I had Army Jeep Parts do mine.

Hawkshadow · Post by **Hawkshadow** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:09 pm

Thanks for the interest and replies! I will be getting some additional work completed on her over the next couple of days and will update the thread accordingly.

Wes:
Waterpump: As it's an A1 water pump, I would imagine that it isn't unheard of to see one on an M38 that was swapped out in-service?

Tranny and T-case: You have me a little worried now... all of the key bits that I've seen on this jeep have appeared to be correct military parts.. Are you able to elaborate on things to search for on both that would give a definitive answer? I haven't searched for manufacturing stamps on them yet, but will definitely have to.

Mystery Bracket: It is the licence plate bracket from a Canadian Iltis utility vehicle. Not sure if it was attached in-service or post surplus.

Ryan: I may be seeing the new body tomorrow. I will be sure to include pics in the next update.

Waterpump: I had been on the fence about getting work done. In your experience is it much better to get it done at this point rather than waiting to see if it works? I spoke with a pump rebuilder up here and he said that he would have to see the pump to know if he has compatible parts. I imagine it would be much easier to purchase a kit and take it to him. Any lines on one? I know I've seen them around, I just can't remember which supplier

Post by **wesk** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:36 pm

The transfer case lacks the threaded type pivot pin for the shifter stalks so I am sure that is a civvy D18.

The military tranny has a built in (integral) rubber boot on the shifter stalk. The Civvy tranny has a steel ball at the top and relies on a rubber boot that is installed above the top of the tranny on the cover panel that bolts to the floor.

I pointed out the pulley because I think you can make enough off the sale of the 3 groove pulley to pay for the water pump kit and buy a used two (narrow) groove pulley.

The MD Juan tubs from the Phillippines are the only replacement steel tubs available and their quality has improved over the years but be prepared for a long arduous task of fitting the tub to your frame and the front sheet metal to the repro tub and the frame.

If you search the tech board here there are several informative threads on water pump rebuilding. John Gibbons from Australia offers an excellent suggestion to upgrade to a modern shaft seal.

Xamon · Post by **Xamon** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:08 am

I can see what wes means. Neither of the transmission shift towers or the shift assembly on the transfer case are the same on what I have.
Also that bit you took off the back of the frame is not the bumper, it is the rear cross member. Just being a bit nitpicky there

Post by **Ryan_Miller** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:47 am

What are the casting numbers, etc. on the transmission and transfer case?

Get those cleaned up and proper photos so we can see more clearly and give you a definitive ID on what you have. Many civilian parts will interchange so you may have a mixture.

Most of these smaller differences only a few people would notice and on these they would need to take out the access panel so unless you are going for a show correct jeep it is not a big deal.

Wes, I don't have a photo of the civilian transmission or transfer housing to show differences.

Do you have any to clarify for the newer folks?

Post by **wesk** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:33 am

A 52 CJ3A transfer case exterior and a 50 to 52 M38 transfer case exterior are identical with the exception of the front bolt on shifter stalk case.

Military transfer nose case.

Late CJ5 without fording vent system plumbed to transfer case.
____________________________________________________________

A 52 CJ3A tranny external case and a 50 to 52 M38 tranny external case are identical except for the shifter cover assembly.

Military tranny

Civvy tranny

Main transfer case PN:
Military - 644319
Civvy - 644319

Transfer Nose case PN:
Military - 801183
Civvy - A-956

Tranny Main Case PN:
Military - 642754
Civvy - 642754

Tranny top cover PN:
Military - 802612
Civvy - 642755

M38CDNBill · Post by **M38CDNBill** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:20 pm

Hello Hawkshadow,

Nice job. For the body, get Willys Acres website at: http://www.willysacres.com This business is in Ontario. You can also get Willys Overland Motors website at: http://www.willysoverland.com/ This business is located at Toledo in Ohio.

I know a M38CDN with the CAR number 52-30716 and the SN is F100664. I suppose that your SN is F100666.

Cheers

BCA · Post by **BCA** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:13 am

Hello Hawkshadow,
Nice work. The rear licence plate holder is correct for the M38CDN. There should be a wood spacer also. The 3-groove waterpump was used on the Canadian M38A1 CDN 2 and 3 which used the 60 amp alternator. None of the 3 grooves properly line-up to use with 2-groove crank and generator pullies. I have these pumps.
If you need a NOS brass RCEME rebuild tag for your engine, PM me and I send you one.
Any luck finding the CFR/CAR number on the left from top frame rail? (Some early Canadian M38's were not stamped).
..... Brian

M38CDNBill · Post by **M38CDNBill** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:52 am

Hello Hawkshadow,

Data plates from Brian are very close to the originals. It's a pleasure to deal with him.

Hey Brian, we'll have our next HMVs meeting the first week-end of August at Waterloo near Granby. Come join us and to convince you, watch the next video of our first meeting in July 2011. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HNx4FlYwnA

Cheers

Hawkshadow · Post by **Hawkshadow** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:48 pm

Engine is still being finished, but the new body kit is in! I went for the complete body kit offered by Willys Acres, built by MD Juan (the only game in town).

This kit looks very nice, and is extremely complete - much more than expected. There is still going to be some fitting and mounting required, but I'm very happy with it out of the box.

Moved on to the rear axle for disassembly.

Internals look to be in great shape.

Attempting to remove the drive shaft yoke from the pinion has proved to be a large problem. It should just lift off once the nut and washer are removed, but it's holding fast against the pinion. It is currently being soaked with penetrating oil.

On to the front axle.

A previous RCEME rebuild tag from 1965.

From the outside in:

I don't have any pictures, but the front axles are Bendix style. The joint on one came out intact and was holding, but the other is a little looser and isn't holding all of the balls. I will get a better look at the problem when they are cleaned up a little bit.

On the transmission question, the tower appears to have the distinct rib found on the military variants as opposed to the slim civilian style. Here is a picture of the number found on the tower.

Brian, it is good to know that the plate holder is correct for the M38s as well as the later Iltis. The number on the frame is 52-30718. I have a picture a page back which shows it, and I have fixed those links so you should be able to see them now. The water pump not working with the engine or generator is concerning... Although it wasn't running when I bought it, I'm sure that it was driven like that for quite some time. Would it have been throwing belts with this setup?

Post by **wesk** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:51 pm

I haven't seen a lot of restored M38CDN's with that plate holder. I assume it was field installation and is not shown in either of the CDN parts manuals?

M38CDNBill · Post by **M38CDNBill** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:12 pm

Hello Hawkshadow,

Keep us in touch with your new body. I bought in 2004 a repro body from Omix Ada and I had many problems to fit it correctly on the frame.

I expect to rebuild another M38CDN in two years and I will need your tips about your repro body.

Cheers

Post by **wesk** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:55 pm

Hello Hawkshadow,

Can you inspect the axle housing tubes out near the brake back plate on the rear and out near the knuckles on the front for an assembly date? If you find them can you clean them up and photograph them for me?