Steering gear question.

army_inc · Post by **army_inc** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:28 pm

I've looked over the Manuals, and it says to remove the cover, then remove the lever shaft, loosen the jacket tube clamp, take tube off, then the manual says you can pull the wheel tube (splined or keyed, which mine is splined) out of the gear box.

Here's my question. I'm at the point where I can "pull" the wheel tube out, but it really isn't moving. I can get it to move probably about a quarter of an inch, but then it won't budge. Am I doing something wrong? Is that splined into the cam and maybe that's why it's so hard to take out? What am I missing here?

I also believe I have a CJ5 steering gear that is in the same boat, and I can't get that to move at all! I just need the tube out of the CJ 5 and put it on the A1. Everything else from the A1 seems serviceable besides the easily replaceable parts (bearings etc.).

jimm · Post by **jimm** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:21 pm

I'm having trouble understanding what parts you are referring to. What do you mean by "lever shaft" and "wheel tube"? Pitman arm shaft, and steering shaft?
As far as I know and can tell from the parts manuals, the M38A1 gear is constructed the same as the M38 gear, just a different ratio. The cam on the end of the steering shaft is welded to the shaft. You have to remove the upper housing from the main housing (three cap screws) to be able to pull the shaft assembly out. This is covered in Section II, Rebuild of Steering Gear in the M38 TM 9-8014B Power train, Body & Frame manual, page 155.

Post by **wesk** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:36 pm

Here, perhaps this will help get everyone on the same page:

army_inc · Post by **army_inc** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:36 am

jimm wrote: The cam on the end of the steering shaft is welded to the shaft. You have to remove the upper housing from the main housing (three cap screws) to be able to pull the shaft assembly out.

I'm at that point where I should be able to "pull" it out, but it will only move a quarter of an inch. I was looking in the ross steering gear manual when I looked up the technical names. I had my TM out in the garage though so I apologize on the confusion of names. I didn't think it would be all that hard to pull it out since everything was held in place by bolts but it won't budge. I don't want to break anything so does anyone have any suggestions?

Bretto · Post by **Bretto** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:29 am

If I remember right there is a ring, probably 'N', that holds the bottom of the shaft in place. If I recall, when I took mine out, I had to push the shaft out with a little force to pop the end out of that retainer ring.

army_inc · Post by **army_inc** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:38 am

I'll have to check on that ring this afternoon! There was so much sludge/oil in there that I could've easily missed it. So basically take that ring out and then I'll be good to go? Sounds good enough for me.

Would I be able to use the CJ5 steering shaft to replace the A1 shaft? THere are no more threads on my A1 shaft for the steering wheel nut to be attached. I have read how ratio's are different between different vehicles, but the CJ5 was the civy version of the A1 so I was wondering if it would work? Also, how exactly can I tell if it is a CJ5 steering gear? I was told that by the person I bought it from (I wanted the steering wheel and for $50 I couldn't go wrong), but how can I verify? Thanks guys for all of your help!

wilfreeman · Post by **wilfreeman** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:43 am

Once you get the sector shaft out, you will remove the tube covering the shaft by loosen ing the clamp bolt and pulling it off (unless the bearing at the top of the steering shaft is rusted to the shaft). Then loosen the 3 cap bolts at the top of the housing. There is nothing else holding the worm (steering) shaft in the housing. The lower bearing is held together with a circlip, but will fit through the housing with a little work (and maybe a hands from a friend). It would be best to remove the whole steering gear from the jeep to rebuild it - will be a pain to replace the bushings (which is necessary for a rebuild) installed in the chassis.

army_inc · Post by **army_inc** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:57 am

wilfreeman wrote:Once you get the sector shaft out, you will remove the tube covering the shaft by loosen ing the clamp bolt and pulling it off (unless the bearing at the top of the steering shaft is rusted to the shaft). Then loosen the 3 cap bolts at the top of the housing. There is nothing else holding the worm (steering) shaft in the housing. The lower bearing is held together with a circlip, but will fit through the housing with a little work (and maybe a hands from a friend). It would be best to remove the whole steering gear from the jeep to rebuild it - will be a pain to replace the bushings (which is necessary for a rebuild) installed in the chassis.

I've removed the covering, the 3 cap bolts from the top, the side covering, the shaft (Part XX, that fits into the cam and turns the pitman arm). It isn't budging. I'm going to have a friend help and hopefully with two people pulling, it will come out.

The steering gear is removed from the chassis. It would be a pain to rebuild while still installed.

Any thoughts on using the CJ5 steering/worm shaft on the A1 steering box? Thanks.

wilfreeman · Post by **wilfreeman** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:31 am

Oh, ok - yeah, definitely easier out of the vehicle. The only thing that could be holding it in might be the lower bearing being rusted in place? If you are getting about 1/4"of movement, that could just be the slop in the bearings - the races could be rusted in place. With that being said, can you see the races moving - they aren't a press fit, just a slip fit. If the races aren't moving, you might be able to spray some pb blaster or something and figure out a way to jar it loose. Just some thoughts.

army_inc · Post by **army_inc** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:40 am

Awesome. It's got to be the bottom bearing then. The top one moves and starts coming out. The bottom one on the other hand.... not so much. I'll give the PB or Slikroil (I think that's how it's spelled) a try and see if that helps! THanks!

wilfreeman · Post by **wilfreeman** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:44 am

Yep, if it isn't moving, thats prob your culprit, because there just isn't anything else there to hold it in.

Post by **wesk** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:35 am

If you decide to knock it out, invest in a set of brass drifts.

For info on substitution here are the part numbers:

M38 Early Tube&Cam 801712
M38 Late Tube&Cam 804388
M38 Both Tube 801713 RG# 089041-36 1/2
M38 Both Cam 644833 RG# TA123001
M38A1 Shaft Assy 807480 RG# 9472-42 3/8
CJ3A,
CJ3B'CJ5/6 Shaft Assy 647693

wilfreeman · Post by **wilfreeman** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:16 am

Hey Dave,
I just remembered that a put some pics of my steering gear rebuild on my blog when I did mine. Here is the link:
http://wilfreeman.wordpress.com/2012/11 ... most-done/
There's a couple more pages with steering gear stuff on there too. I'm getting ready to dive back into the steering shortly - I'm going to be rebuilding my bellcrank because I think the casting is worn. Still getting about 1/4"of play in it. I also have an NOS pitman arm to install.

army_inc · Post by **army_inc** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:30 am

Wes, Thanks for the part numbers. Thanks Will for sending your rebuild link. I'm going to use that in the near future to help me out as well! Now i just need to take some pictures and update my build thread! Are either of you going to Aberdeen this year? I wouldn't mind meeting some other members of the site to match a name with a face.

wilfreeman · Post by **wilfreeman** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:43 am

I try to include some stuff that might be of some use to people on my blog. Hopefully, followers of it can learn something from my trial and error.

I'd love to go to Aberdeen, but it's a little far north for me. I just got back from a rally in Denton, NC this past weekend - pretty good time.