Replacement Upper Housing Seal (steering box)

Hawkshadow · Post by **Hawkshadow** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:17 pm

When rebuilding my steering box, the most difficult part to find has been the upper housing seal. I purchased a replacement from DeBella's which is not an exact match.

Original:

Replacement:

Now, I did come across information which states:
The seal for the M38 (Willys pn 804387) was replaced (when stock exhausted) by the seal form the M38A1 steering box. NSN is 2530 (later changed to proper stock class of 5330)-00-693-0775. Willys part number is 808414.

The info for it is as follows:

NAME ITEM NAME...........................SEAL,PLAIN ENCASED
ABJH TEMP RATING........................-65.0 DEG FAHRENHEIT AND 275.0 DEG FAHRENHEIT
ABVM ACCOMMODATED SHAFT DIAMETER.......0.883 INCHES MINIMUM AND 0.888 INCHES MAXIMUM
ADUC SEAL WIDTH.........................0.438 INCHES NOMINAL
BHHL CASE STYLE.........................RECESSED
CPCW HOUSING BORE DIAMETER.......1.179 INCHES MINIMUM AND 1.181 INCHES MAXIMUM
CTQC SEALING ELEMENT STYLE........ANGULAR
MATT MATERIAL.............................RUBBER SYNTHETIC SEALING ELEMENT

You can see that the NSN on the replacement part is off by 2 numbers. (NSN: 2530 - 693 - 0777)

Is this a later replacement? If so does it install and function the same?

Post by **wesk** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:57 pm

I think your FSN 2530-693-0777 is not correct.

Here is what is listed in the M38/M38A1 supply manuals:

Steering gear box upper mast adapter seal.

M38

Early Gear box used from MC10001 thru MC31337 Ratio 15.5-13.5-15.4
ORD# 7375345, WO# 801691, RG# TA13077
No seal used.

Late Gear box used from MC31338 through end of M38 production Ratio 15.4-13.5-15.4
ORD# 7412447, WO# 804384, RG# TA13084
Seal, rubber, 1.185 ID x 1.5000 OD x 0.250 thick.
ORD# 8332553, WO# 804387, RG# 032161, NSN 5950-00-833-2553

M38A1

Early Gear box SN range Unknown Ratio 19.1-17.1-19.1
ORD# 8329724, WO# 805276
Seal, rubber, 1.185 ID x 1.5000 OD x 0.250 thick.used on gear box 8329724
ORD# 8332553, WO# 804387, RG# 032161, NSN 5950-00-833-2553

Late Gear box SN Range unknown, Ratio 19-17-19
ORD# 8332549, WO# 808444, RG# TL13019
Seal, plain encased Used on gear box 8332549, supersedes seal 8332553
ORD# 8332551, WO# 808414, RG# 032188, TLS# B112A56-7, NSN 5330-00-693-0775
Temp Rating: -65.0 deg fahrenheit and 275.0 deg Fahrenheit
Accommodated Shaft Diameter: 0.883 inches minimum and 0.888 inches maximum
Seal Width: 0.438 inches nominal
Case Style: Recessed
Housing Bore Diameter: 1.179 inches minimum and 1.181 inches maximum
Sealing Element Style: Angular
Material: Rubber synthetic sealing element
Material Document AND Classification: MIL-P-83461 mil spec single material response sealing element

BCA · Post by **BCA** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:49 pm

My research shows the upper housing seals as:
-late M38,early M38A1: G758-8332553 = 2530-693-0777=WO 804387.
-late M38A1: G758-8332551 = 2530-693-0775=WO 808415.
My dealer records do reference 5950-933-2553 as being related to G758 number but with no details and it doesn't show up the 1960's SM9 cross references and I believe it was a quickly obsoleted federal stock number replaced by 2530-693-0777.
So the supplied seal 2530-693-0777 should fit the late waterproofed M38 and the early M38A1's. The Canadian master parts list says that the late M38A1 seal 2530-693-0775 "superceeds" the previous seal so presumably they interchange.
There is always a chance that the packaged surplus seal, if it doesn't fit was a production or packing mistake. ............ Brian

Post by **wesk** » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:47 pm

Brian,
Where did you get this-0777 stock number from?

My research shows the upper housing seals as:
-late M38,early M38A1: G758-8332553 = 2530-693-0777=WO 804387.

BCA · Post by **BCA** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:19 am

Wes: The equivalence of 2530-693-0777 with G758-8332553, WO 804387, RG 032161 is shown in the Sept. 1960 edition of SM9-3-2 vol.8 Cross Reference of Federal Stock Numbers and also in 1957 edition of SM9-9-3-4 vol.17 Cross Reference of Former Ordnance Stock Numbers (G #'s to us). ..... Brian

Post by **wesk** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:46 am

That is what I wanted to narrow the discussion to. During my years in the service 66-89 we would look up our parts in our Ord 9's and -4's which were make/model specific. Then shoot the order to base supply and if not in stock under our numbers the supply troop would ask if he could issue a sub. Usually this was ok with us and he would run the cross ref's you did using his federal stock catalogs and find a suitable sub. 95% of the time those subs got the job done but 5% were often a PITA to install. That 5% issue arose when not ordering a complete assembly but only a single bit of an assembly. The sub often needed the mating piece to be from the same source as the sub to fit or function properly.

Hawkshadow · Post by **Hawkshadow** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:02 pm

Thanks for the very thorough input gentlemen. I will be with the jeep again soon and will post pictures and an update. Wes, let me know if you need any additional pictures of the inside of the housing or the old seal for our reference gallery here.

Post by **wesk** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:52 pm

Can you supply the dimensions for each drawing and provide a side shot of the old seal similar to the 2nd new seal photo?

Hawkshadow · Post by **Hawkshadow** » Sat May 03, 2014 2:27 pm

New Seal
A: 1.1195"
B: 1.1195"
C: 1.4755"
D: 1.4755"
E: 1.3045"
F: 0.753"
G: 1.1195"
H: 1.235"
Overall Length incl rubber: 1.002"

Old Seal
Inside Diameter at collar: 0.9575"
A: 0.8575"
B: 1.195"
Collar thickness: 0.262"
Exposed rubber thickness: 0.150"

Upper housing
Inside Diameter: 1.171"
From upper edge to shoulder: 0.563"

The conclusion from the measurements is that the "new seal" will not work with housing number T126995. The shoulder on the inside of the housing does not allow the seal to seat, and the outer rubber edge is far larger than the inside diameter of the housing.

Additional pictures requested will follow.[/u]

Hawkshadow · Post by **Hawkshadow** » Wed May 07, 2014 7:45 pm

The final conclusion is that the seals are not interchangeable as seen in the picture below.

Additional pictures as requested in the forum specifically addressing the issue.

dayboy42 · Post by **dayboy42** » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:20 am

Has anyone had any luck finding this seal yet? I have not and I will probably have to take a drive to a specialty bearing & seal company soon. Maybe I can find something similar.

BCA · Post by **BCA** » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:07 am

I don't have the seal separately but do stock the "cover" with seal as originally posted by Hawkshadow. NOS. PM me for details. Brian

Hawkshadow · Post by **Hawkshadow** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:26 am

I wasn't able to find just the seal. I re-installed the old one to see how it would fare. Hard to inspect as it's under the tube, but I checked the fluid (corn head grease) level in the box and it was still full after a year of driving. The bigger leaks happened between the shims when I originally used gear oil in the box.

dayboy42 · Post by **dayboy42** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:01 pm

BCA - Thank you for responding but have found one locally in the states. I really appreciate your response.

Army Jeep Parts in PA stocks the Flange & Seal together and are NOS. $25.00