Tank sealer.

Hammerun · Post by **Hammerun** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:14 am

I suppose there is going to be many differing opinions on this subject, but here goes.
While rebuilding my wife's jeep (m38a1) while I had it in pieces I thought to look to see what condition the gas tank as in. There was a couple of pin holes in the spout side on the bottom pitch seam but nothing major. While researching I ran into KBS tank sealer. I watched their instructional videos and read what was available and decided what the heck.
So $66 bucks + shipping later I got their kit. Figuring anythings better than $500+ for a new gas tank. Why not give it a shot!
When you use the KBS Klean, USE latex gloves. It will stain your finger nails like you won't believe. The rust Blast is next. Read the instructions on this, all of them for that matter. For some bigger holes they have NuMetal epoxy putty. I haven't used this but would if I had too. Then I sealed the tank with the Tank Sealer. There was a quart of it. I didn't think there was going to be enough of it but in the end I used about a third of it. Avoid laying this sealer on to thick or a puddle of it. It will bubble up. Get the out side good and clean and use the residual on the outside with a small paint brush. Take your time this isn't going to happen in a couple of hours. I cleaned it and dried it the first day, the rust blast the second day and sealed it the third day and let it sit for five days, for a good cure.
The second day of the sealer, I couldn't put a dent in it with a fingernail and the finish was beautiful, especially the inside, like brand new.
I was really impressed with this stuff, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
Watch the videos and read up on it.

Post by **wesk** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:12 pm

The really revealing long term evaluation is yet to come.

OKCM38CDN · Post by **OKCM38CDN** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:10 am

Not to Steal your thread, but I have a M-38A1 fuel tank, that from all outward appearances is in good shape, except for some corrosion / surface rust on the inside... What would be the best way to get it clean with minimum damage...

Post by **wesk** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:13 am

Electrolysis, coca cola or any modern rust remover treatment. If you had access to a tumbler or cement mixer you could add some pea gravel or small river stone and tumble the rust away in a few hours.

Hammerun · Post by **Hammerun** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:18 am

On my tank I had a few light rust spots and after I used the rust blast they were gone, but mine were very light. They claim the rust blast eliminates all rust and corrosion, take that for what it's worth. I did call KBS this morning and asked, do they know what happens in say two years after gas has been sitting on for that length of time. The girl offered nothing more than "it's designed to last" and we have been selling it for 8 years with no complaint. (Sounds a little scripted) but she did offer that brake fluid would mess with it. I pressed her a little if she was aware of any testing. She was not, which tells me she was a phone answerer fielding questions. Anybody that develops a product like this HAS to have ran numerous fatigue tests before hitting the market.
I'm not endorsing this stuff other than my own personal experience. This is the first time I've used this product. It looks good, what's that worth? I won't have gas on it for about a month. I figure, "nothing ventured, nothing gained".
All I can say is call them and ask questions.

Post by **wesk** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:34 am

I have refused to use tank coatings since I started out in the maintenance field in the early 60's. It's a band aid for a bigger problem and in the majority of cases of it's use any failure to follow the manufacturer's instructions will result in early failures. In the majority of coating uses the long term results, based on my 55 years of experiences, were usually separation and peeling of the material which lead to blockage of filters and screens. When you have seen dozens of these tanks 10 or 20 years after the stuff was applied you would never buy it.

The fool proof plan is to cut the tank open, correct corrosion and structural issues with standard industry metal repairs and weld her closed. Then keep the tank full. Don't store a jeep for a full winter with a half filled tank. The moisture always present will start the corrosion process again.

Do the arithmetic. These tanks were new uncoated in the fifties and lasted fifty years with regular use. Returned to that same original uncoated condition and those tanks will last another fifty years.

This is my personal opinion. I am not posting to be argumentative.

Hammerun · Post by **Hammerun** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:12 am

Wes, I see your point and well taken. Nothing is as good as experience. At any time any of us could plunk down 5 bones for a nice new shiny one so why not play with something new? Who knows, maybe somebody finally hits the jackpot and gets it right. Modern wizbangery.

Post by **wesk** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:31 am

Or if you are good at welding you could plank down less then half the cost of the coating kit and cut her open and replace repair or clean affected areas and weld her closed.

Hammerun · Post by **Hammerun** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:52 pm

That's pretty thin steel to be welding on. Even with a TIG. I have a Hobart HR 300 with a cooled 240 TIG, the weld would have to be backed in order to get a good welded seal, especially for a gas tank. Besides that where could you cut it? If you cut the top, what do you do with the baffle that runs front to back and spot welded to the top? I would think depending on the hole that cutting the hole back to good steel and fashioning an oversized steel patch overlapping the edges of the hole and TIGing the edges of the patch from the outside on good steel might be a possibility.
But ripping that tanks perimeter with a plasma and then fitting it back together would be a pain. A fillet weld on 18 gauge with no backing, might be well beyond my ability.

Post by **wesk** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:27 pm

Thousands of gas tanks have been repaired by cutting & welding. If one lacks the necessary skills or equipment one can do the basic cutting, cleaning patch fabrication and tacking then take it to a shop for final welding. The bottom line is there many solutions to old rusty tank problems. I personally will never pay $500 for any jeep gas tank. I have repaired my own and others over the years with no serious difficulties. And buying a new tank was never the only solution just as coating tank interiors was never the only solution.

Bretto · Post by **Bretto** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:19 am

I did what Wes suggest. You just have to take some precautionary measures to avoid an explosion. This was done with my 220 MIG machine with .025 wire. You just slowly spot weld it along like you would any body work welding.
Brett
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Hammerun · Post by **Hammerun** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:54 pm

Wow what a project. Just out of curiosity what did you do with the baffle? What did you have, three big patches? Ida been looking for another tank. How many pinholes, there had to be some?
My brother and his wife was down for a couple of weeks and he wanted to give Jeep 1 a go so I threw him the keys and he and her disappeared in the desert for a couple of hours. He was so impressed he stated, why in the world would you fork out 12 or 15K for a Quad? These are a lot more fun. Fast forward 5 weeks he went down to Lehigh Utah and scored a 1960 CJ5 body off restoration, a perfect machine. He called me as he was looking at it and I had him look at the usual rust spots and usual problem areas and found nothing. He said the paint on the bottom of the frame and scrape plates didn't have a mark in it. No leaks, nothing. I asked him how much does he want for it? He said, $4000. I'm jumping up and down screaming BUY IT, BUY. IT, BUY IT!!! He put it on the trailer and took it home.
The guy that sold it, his grandfather that passed away, owned this restoration garage and this CJ5 was one of his pet projects.
Anyway, Dan tells me that theres a plastic under seat tank in it. I've turned over every rock looking for a plastic tank with no luck. I'm having him look and see if he can find a manufactures name on it.
I hope this KBS sealer does work. I have two other tanks that in no way can be welded or repaired and are not available on the after market, so they have to be sealed, there's no other way. One being custom painted and the other being PVC.
I've asked KBS if it would work on PVC, they didn't recommend it but they have tried it but could see adhesion problems with it for the average consumer, so they don't advertise as being for plastic.

Bretto · Post by **Bretto** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:19 pm

The Jeep as a whole was a project, this was a minute piece.
There is only two patches there. The large one bridges the baffle. These areas were only cut out because of pinholes and thinning pinholes in the making. The repair over a few days work was a lot easier on the wallet than buying a new tank and it's guaranteed to go back in place and fit.
In regards to the baffle, the outer skin is just spot welded to the baffle. You just have to cut those weld, probably the easiest part actually.
My tank, if you were to look at it from the inside, was spotless. The rust and pinholes were from the outside in, so it was easy to see what I needed to cut out. The previous owner had the tank sitting on the tub with no spacers.
Brett

Hammerun · Post by **Hammerun** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:42 pm

My tank too was reasonably clean inside. The only leak was under the spout in the bottom pinch seam and it was only just a pin hole.
I thought about running a bead right down the outside on the seam but something about that KBS sealer intrigued me. I'm kind of a inquisitive type about new wizbang things. Like I've said earlier, "nothing ventured, nothing gained". Plus the fact I've other projects to happen if this stuff works out.
One thing that ruins a lot of welding ideas is rust. By the time you grind all of the rust off, you got nothing left to weld on and thusly blowing holes. Rust seem to be a well added option on most of these old jeeps.
I don't know how many people owned this jeep before me but it must have been a bunch and none of them could weld. My gawd, the atrocious welds I've ran into on this thing. Something about a chicken doing something on a rock comes to mind.
But I do see your technique about trigger welding and understand it. I get off into an idea of a long and continuos weld making a good seal.