brakes

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:09 pm

Once I get the e-brake cable installed and hopefully adjusted, I'll finish installing the tie rods, bell crank, and drag link. Then I'll have to make a decision whether to go ahead and pull the steering box, or move on to the brakes.

In either case, I looked at the brake lines and master cylinder again today.

I am thinking I should skip trying to patch and fix, and just do a tear out and replacement, at least up to the wheels. Photos below are what is driving this thinking, as anything less may just be wasting money I'll have to spend down the road anyway. I'm not sure I'll be able to get some of those rusty fittings apart.....

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gall ... rakes1.jpg

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gall ... rakes2.jpg

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gall ... rakes3.jpg

That torn boot and rusty shaft coming out of the master cylinder gives me no confidence about what I'll find inside. I can't even get the cap off.
Thoughts?

Thanks,
Brian

southpw · Post by **southpw** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:50 pm

The cap is on tight. I had to take a wrench to mine and even after a few turns it is still tight and needed to continue using wrench until it was completely off.
The good news is that a new master cylinder is only $40 on most of the sites selling parts or $22 for a rebuild kit.
Or your other option is to go with the dual master cylinder. They say this is safer as the fronts and rears are then separate. in case something happens to a brake line then you will still have stopping power.

Personally, I will be replacing all brake components when that part of my project comes. I feel much safer with new lines(hard and soft) as i do not know how long these ones have been on.

If money is flowing well right now you may want to tackle the steering box as this will likely cost more than your brake resto depending on what you find. If cash is tight then maybe stick to brakes for now.

Brad

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:01 pm

Hi Brad,
Sort of fixed income, so have to prioritize.

I am afraid the sector shaft bearings are shot. I will tack everything together up to the box and try and adjust and see where I am. I probably need to pull the box and tube altogether to get an idea, but figure if I do that I may as well tear everything down at that point.

Will it steer on the ranch road in the meantime? It sure won't stop without working the clutch and using the e-brake. But there's that.

I need to think about that. Maybe while I'm sleeping, so I don't waste daylight!

I have thought about the dual master cylinder for exactly the reason you mention. Just have to do a little re-engineering.

I'm with you though. If there was any indication that there was reuseable brake stuff under that jeep I'd consider it, but with all of the rust and the condition of the master cylinder I think everything gets replaced to the wheels. In the end it really isn't that much more money. And safety is paramount.

Thanks for the reply.
Brian

skyjeep50 · Post by **skyjeep50** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:06 am

The exterior of the brake lines and hoses matters little - its the interior that hides the rust and dirt. If the fluid in the master cylinder is clear and there is no rust there, maybe you will be ok retaining the old lines. Change out the fluid and run clean through the lines to check for contamination. But, I'm betting clear fluid is not what you will see. On the 3 jeeps I've owned I've replaced the complete brake system on 2 and brake hoses on the 3rd because of deterioration. Brake systems tend not to get the service they need. And stop power can be a lot more important than go power!

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:45 am

Sky,
Yes, I believe it is more important to be able to stop than go.

I have not yet been able to get the cap off the master cyl yet. It is plastic and I don't know how hard I can crank on it. I know the pedal goes all the way to the floor with no pressure. The looks of the rubber seal probably tell most of the story, plus the two partial cans of DOT 3 that came in the jeep.

The rubber hoses are in very bad shape, and if you enlarge my photos you'll see the fittings look like they've morphed into one mass.

I suspect once I put a little horsepower on one of these it will twist off at the thread.

Brian

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:35 am

Finally managed to the the master cylinder cap off yesterday.

Inside is rust with some thick, orange liquid.

I'm familiar with what engine oil looks like with water in it, but not brake fluid.

My guess it's water and brake fluid.

I'm going to replace everything. Question is does it make more sense to try and rebuild the master cylinder or go ahead and cough up the dough and get something clean to start with?

Brian

Post by **wesk** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:35 pm

Once the mechanically inaccessible areas have corroded chuck it.

skyjeep50 · Post by **skyjeep50** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:29 am

The thick orange liquid is rust+water+brake fluid.

Hawkshadow · Post by **Hawkshadow** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:18 am

I thoroughly suggest that you replace the brakes. They're not an area that you would want to skimp on either - as by the time you wish you hadn't it's usually too late. The Dual Cyl kit installs quite easily and is a big safety point.

If you're thinking about bending your own lines it isn't too difficult, just invest in (or borrow) a good double flaring kit. Many of the cheaper ones just don't work well and aren't strong enough to do a good job with the steel lines.

rb6874 · Post by **rb6874** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:54 pm

I JUST redid my brakes from master cylinder down to lines, hoses, wheel cylinders, and shoes; machined the drums. I'm REALLY glad I did all at once. Though I am having a terrible time figuring out an ignition issue, when I can get her running, she stops on a dime!

I bought the lines($58.00), hoses($65.50), wheel cylinders($82.00), and shoes ($61.00) a year ago from ebay, before I knew better than to trust omix-ada parts. Then, during the rebuild, I found that the master cylinder was leaking, and I bought a nice master cylinder ($61.00)from Midwest Military.

The omix-ada lines went in with only minor bending and tweaking. The wheel cylinders seem to be pretty good. The hose fittings were a PITA to lock in place. The shoes felt okay. The master cylinder felt good and solid.

In "summary," if budget allows, I would go with as much quality repro and/or NOS as possible, but if one is to skimp, I would at least avoid the omix hoses... just my experience with it.[/i]