Finding numbers for 1960 M38A1

Rockytop · Post by **Rockytop** » Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:20 pm

Hello guys, newbie here. I just purchased I believe to be a 1960 M38A1. I have yet to find any numbers on the frame or body. Looks as if all has been removed. I did find a serial number located above the water pump it reads MD 24545. The jeep I was told came out of Colorado. I want to know as much as possible about the jeep if possible. If anyone has any info about the serial number or where I can look for a vin/serial number on the frame or body please let me know. Thanks

Post by **wesk** » Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:54 pm

I will assume you do not have a Canadian M38A1 nor a Dutch NEKAF M38A1. Willys only placed three primary serial numbers on the jeep at the factory.

1-Dash serial plate.
2-Patent plate behind the passenger seat on the front vertical surface of the right rear wheel house.
3-Engine serial on flat above the water pump.

On occasion during military depot overhauls some jeeps had their hood number or serial number stamped on the top of the left front frame rail.

Your engine serial is a very early serial from 1952/53 and is probably the early casting number 646228 as well. Late casting # is 806279

Early casting

How do you know it is a 1960 unit? What serial number is on your title?

Rockytop · Post by **Rockytop** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:35 pm

Wes, thanks for responding . All tags/badges have been removed for some reason.I was just told it was a 1960 and have no documentation to prove it. There is no title for the jeep. I bought it from a guy in Kansas who had it got it from a friend to restore and never got to it. He said it sit 10+ years with him. The number on the block reads 806279-W-13-D-AR CO CR

Thanks
Martin

45auto · Post by **45auto** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:06 pm

Seeing that you have the later engine block, check you engine serial number again. Look for a "1" right after the MD prefix. If you can see quite a bit of space right after MD and the start of the numbers you may have miss a digit.

Engine MD 124214 is in a 12/60 M38A1. Get a strong light and wire brush and sand the pad to see if there are any other numbers.

There are other ways to narrow down your M38A1 year. Not so easy, but if you want to know, its worth getting greasy over.

Rockytop · Post by **Rockytop** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:44 pm

Thanks for the response, I just went and doubled checked and there is no gap in between the MD and the 2.

Thanks

Post by **wesk** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:09 am

If that is the serial for the engine then it is an extremely early 1953 engine. Hence not original to your jeep. Complete the M38A1 survey form I sent you with as much detail as possible so I can better estimate the true Date of Delivery of it.

Rockytop · Post by **Rockytop** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:00 pm

Ok Wes, thanks I am working on the paper work and will get it back to you asap. Thanks again

Martin

Rockytop · Post by **Rockytop** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:44 pm

Wes, I e mailed you the info as well as some pics. I did find a date stamp on the passenger side rear axle tube 7 1 53 A . With my engine being a early 53 cast could this be a 1953 model instead of a 1960 ? sounds obvious but don't wanna get to excited.

Post by **wesk** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:29 pm

Seldom are engines original to any military jeep. But it is quite common for retired military jeeps to still have their original axles. Especially the rear one.

I have not received any emails from you.

TomM · Post by **TomM** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:23 am

Does your grille have hinges attaching it to the frame? Can you post side views of your fenders? Do you're fenders have a 45 degree seam showing from their upper rear corner to the wheel opening?

Rockytop · Post by **Rockytop** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:41 am

Thanks Tom, no hinges on radiator, looks like one big bolt in bottom center. I am not set up yet to send pictures. I did e mail Wes some. I can send you some if you can leave me your e mail address.

Thanks,
Martin

TomM · Post by **TomM** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:01 am

Here is a set of pictures and overview of the M38A1 early vs later.
http://www.m38a1.com/Models/models_original.htm

But again, Wes hit the answer to your question of finding the s/n. There were no hidden stampings. The data plates were the sole source of serial number. The engine MD stamp was the sole source of engine s/n.

Tom

Rockytop · Post by **Rockytop** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:41 am

Tom, thanks for the pics and the overview, that helped a lot looks like mine is for sure the second generation, from looking at the pics. Wes says he believes the frame engine and axles all appear to be from 53, I still have to get back with him for some more needed info on the tub to confirm some things.. With all of this information we have now with the engine serial number and the date stamp on the rear axle tube and the second generation does all of this line up and make sense?

TomM · Post by **TomM** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:01 am

Keep in mind these were repaired and repaired again so its not unusual work on a mix of parts. You might also look on the side of the T90 transmission. Drivers side over the two big bumps is often stamped a casting date. It will be covered with grime and oil. A wire brush will get you through. Month, day and year might add another piece of information for you.

Rockytop · Post by **Rockytop** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:12 am

Ok Tom thanks,Did all of these M38's see action ? and is there anyway to track where its been? im currently out of town so will be weekend before I am able to scratch around anymore. Thanks for the help.

Finding numbers for 1960 M38A1

Pictures

M38A1