M38 Axe

Ryan_M · Post by **Ryan_M** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:25 pm

I received a set of pioneer tools today from a popular vendor. The shovel fits great but the axe....not so much. Can anyone tell from my pics where the problem lies? Is the axe wrong? Is the tub wrong? Is the axe handle bracket wrong?

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:55 pm

Wow, that's a lot.

Search for axe, bracket , etc. you'll find d a whole discussion on
the axe mounting particularly between RickG and Bretto among others.

One item talked about is done repop handle brackets are too short by
about an inch.

Can you back off the nuts inside the tub and try and move the
bracket out?

Ryan_M · Post by **Ryan_M** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:00 pm

I spent a lot of time reading here prior to installing that bracket. Wes has pics and measurements posted and I went through all of Bretto's stuff - I thought I got it right.

I can't back off the nuts inside the tub much more as they are already flush with the ends of the bracket. If all else fails I can make a custom bracket similar to what's there but with longer "legs" so I can have it stick out more.

Bill_F · Post by **Bill_F** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:56 pm

I just moved my bracket back further on the tub to make it work. I know not correct but no one has ever noticed before

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:32 pm

Oh, wait. You installed the forward bracket?

There wasn't a bracket or holes drilled in the tub already?

It looks like the bottom is bolted through a tab connected to the back of the step, just as my bottom hole lines up. That seems correct.

I'm at a loss Man.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:47 pm

I have one more question. In your first pic it looks like the bottom
of the tub side is bent inward, right near where the bracket bolts.

If it is pushed in at the bracket that won't help.

It might be more than just one issue, but several minor
ones that are adding up to the alignment problem.

Ryan_M · Post by **Ryan_M** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:55 am

4x4M38 wrote:I have one more question. In your first pic it looks like the bottom
of the tub side is bent inward, right near where the bracket bolts.

Good eye. I just took another look and that area is pushed in quite a bit. I originally thought it was just "sculpted" that way as part of the tool indents but now I'm not so sure. That section was also cut out and replaced by the PO (which is why I had to drill and install the handle bracket). Like you said, a little off here or there can really add up. I'll have to see if I can bang that panel out a little bit without causing worse problems elsewhere or just move/modify the bracket.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:11 am

There is a little bit of access behind the sheetmetal inside the
toolbox. You might be able to make a plate with holes in it and
slide pull some of it out. Problem is you'll be fighting the toolbox
sheetmetal as well as the tub side and floor joint.

You may have to pop the spot welds where the floor/side sheet
meets to get the steel moving, then once it's where you want it
spot weld it back.

Mine is dented in the same place. I think it is supposed to be
flat/straight all the way down below the axe sheath.

Pushed in where the head bracket goes will pull the handle out away
from the body on the other end.

Ryan_M · Post by **Ryan_M** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:17 pm

I cut and then welded a bolt to each leg of the bracket to extend it out a bit. It isn't the prettiest but with a couple dabs of paint nobody will notice.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:23 pm

Hey Ryan,
If you want to be anal file it, thread it and paint it !

I think Brett did the same thing.

How long are ya'lls axe handles? Doesn't seem much use to
that step with the handle blocking most of it.

Ryan_M · Post by **Ryan_M** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:00 pm

4x4M38 wrote:Hey Ryan,
If you want to be anal file it, thread it and paint it !

.

I thought of doing that but then it would be way too nice and out of place on this old bomber.

Post by **wesk** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:36 pm

Brian, Look at the brite side. If you had an MB it would be your step with the ax handle in front of it!

One point to keep in mind these jeeps did not always travel with the pioneer tool sets on board. Many motor pools kept the spare tires and pioneer kits in storage under the jeeps hood number. When you signed the jeep out to take it off base or on a deployment you would sing for the jeep with the stored items now installed. In the Air Force this was the standard procedure as well.

capescw · Post by **capescw** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:07 am

Looks to me like the 'indentation' on the body isn't anywhere as deep as it should be!

Post by **wesk** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:44 am

I noticed the MB/GPW guys have similar issues though not as bad as the M38. All seem to be with stock factory tubs. I would guess the original axes used had thinner handles and heads. It wouldn't surprise me if the GI's just steamed the handles to a slight curve to make them fit better. I have often though maybe Willys fouled up on the length of the axe handle divit in the tub. The MB appears to have a much longer or deeper divit.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:43 pm

I have a couple of ideas. Could someone measure the width of the axe head
clamp where the back of the head lays. On an original bracket if one is to
be found. Also. Check the military specs for the axe head width at the back,
as well as the width of the axe handle.

If the width of the base of the mount is wide enough, and the axe handle
actually lays down in that body channel, it will allow the handle end to sit closer to the body. If you install the handle then the head, tightening the
straps should snug the handle into the channel

In the photos the handle looks too wide for the channel and is not laying
down all the way in. It also might be just the photo angle.

Repop brackets may not have enough room for the head to move a little

M38 Axe

M38 Axe

Alternate explanation