Replacing clutch

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:15 pm

I need a complete clutch job.

Options are remove powerplant, trans and transfer
as a unit, remove powerplant leaving trans
and transfer in frame, and remove trans and
transfer leaving powerplant in frame.

I will probably have to tackle this by myself.
Also, somewhere in the dim, foggy the engine
lift bracket was removed, and it appears that
only one of the three longer studs is still
present, the one the crossover pipe bolts
to.

I'm thinking removing the engine and leaving the
tranny and transfer in the vehicle might
be the easiest for me.

My main question is how do I lift the engine
without a lift bracket, and only one long
stud?

Tks.

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:04 pm

My lift bracket is gone and the stud situation same as yours. I bought the bracket and was going to ask if I could get away with removing those three adjacent studs at the same time, put the bracket on, then re-torque ---- or should I bite the bullet and just plan on replacing the head gasket?

I always heard that taking one head stud out and re-torqueing it was ok, but not two or more that are side by side.

Anyway, I was thinking of one of these on the end of a regular motor lift....just a thought.......

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Erickson-2-x-8- ... _736wt_867

Regards,

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:31 pm

Hi Ron,
I think Bretto pulls his tranny and transfer through the floor
or drops it to the floor using a lift and one of those straps.

acengraver · Post by **acengraver** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:10 pm

I just put my GPW engine in the frame using 2 nylon straps and a load leveler. 1 strap at the front of the engine between front mount plate and fuel pump, the other at the back near the rear plate at the transmission. Used the load leveler to alter the CG as needed.

idiocrates · Post by **idiocrates** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:14 pm

When I was working on my 38A1 I lifted the engine out of the frame using a regular engine hoist and a nylon lifting strap. The strap has an eye on each end so I simply put the strap around the entire engine, put one end of the strap through the eye on the opposite end, cinched it down good and tight and hooked the loose end into the lifting hook on the hoist.

The only thing that might make this not work for you is, I had all the external components (radiator, fenders, and body tub) all removed so the lift did not need to raise the engine very high to get it out of the frame. Also, I had the transmission and transfer case detached from the engine and supported from the floor so all I had to do was lift up and move the engine forward ever so slightly as the engine was lifted out. Hope that helps.

JD

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:26 pm

Thanks Guys.
Jim, if I remove the engine I'll have to drain the radiator,
so removing it and the grille, and the fenders are really easy.
I can do all of that.

I was thinking of leaving the transmission and transfer bolted
in place to the crossmember. I wouldn't have to support it then
would I or yes?

Will a regular rental engine lift work and where do I find one
of those straps?
Thanks,

idiocrates · Post by **idiocrates** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:57 pm

Its been so long ago I really don't remember if supporting the transmission was necessary or just precautionary, but when I did it I separated the engine from the bell housing so that left it attached to the transmission which I think might made it somewhat front heavy.

As for the strap, the one I used was actually a lifting strap for industrial lead acid batteries. I don't remember the weight rating but it was green in color which I think defined its weight lifting class. The one I have was supplied with new C&D batteries and is approximately 4 inches wide....and I am absolutely certain the batteries we were installing were a whole lot heavier then the little old 4 cylinder Willys engine.

Post by **wesk** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:50 pm

The price of a new lift bracket is about the same as the price for a load leveler. Why not keep it simple and buy a new lift bracket?

How you access the clutch depends on several things:

1-Do you have a lift that can raise the vehicle off the floor?
2-If not, do you have a good transmission jack and extra floor jacks?
3-If neither of the above, do you have a cherry picker (Engine Hoist)?

Since I haven't had access the last few years to a floor hoist/lift and I do not have any desire to lay on the floor and man handle over 200 pounds of steel on my chest i prefer to unbolt the engine from the bell if there are no tranny/transfer issues. It takes me just under an hour to pull the L or F 134 by itself. If there are issues with the tranny and/or transfer then of course I pull the power plant assembly which takes just over an hour. If I leave the tranny/transfer in the chassis then I support the tranny with a floor jack until I have the engine out then I tie the bell up to the firewall to hold it in the supported position I had it in for the engine removal and then remove the floor jack.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:45 am

Hi Wes,
Thanks for replying. I don't have any of the above and would
have to rent what is needed. The bracket is a good idea, but
I would essentially have to pull the head to replace those short
studs, correct?

Sadly, other than the throwout bearing and ground
up pressure plate tabs, the engine runs just fine. I bet the
clutch disc is decent. Bubba hasn't been using that clutch for a
while. It just can't shift while it is running. I'm reluctant to keep
pulling off old parts worried I might never get it moving again.

I completely agree about laying on my back on the garage floor
trying to keep from being mashed by the tranny/transfer combo.
I'm getting too old for that foolishness.

Any suggestions as to reinstalling the lift bracket would be
appreciated. Using it I would not need to remove all of the
"breakables" like the carb, distributor, etc, correct?

I'll go back and read the manual about removing the engine
for more background.

Thanks,

Post by **wesk** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:08 am

Studs can be replaced without removing the head. You simply loosen the nut. Then install and tighten an extra nut against the original nut by holding the loose original nut with a wrench and then using another wrench to tighten the jam nut against the original nut. Now just turn the original nut CCW and the stud will unscrew. If it doesn't want to budge then break the stud's shank loose from the rusty hole in the head by striking it with a brass punch and hammer. Pull all three. Install the correct length studs for the lift bracket and torque those three accordingly. Run the engine a bit and then re-torque all the head bolts.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:49 am

Great Wes, what I was hoping to hear. I hope I have enough
thread on those short two.

Now to get the intestinal fortitude to put the wrenches to them...

Do any of those three penetrate the water jacket or are those
just exhaust studs in thinking of?

Thanks again,

STXM38A1 · Post by **STXM38A1** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:45 pm

Once you get it out, you could set on something like this until ready to reinstall it in the vehicle:

More pictures at:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... _album.php

Built it out of left-over lumber and inexpensive steel swivel casters. I can roll it around the garage so I can get at other junk -- er projects.
As is, has support in back under the bell housing, but you could easily add a "shelf" to support under the oil pan so you could remove bell housing to get at clutch. It's wood, so easy to modify.

More rain from the Norther than came through the Hill Country today.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:15 pm

Hey Warren,
That gizmo is pretty slick!

We got 7-1/2" over the last two weekends and were looking
for more, just not 8" at once!

Sprinkling now, 1-1/4" since yesterday. Hard to work on the jeep
between showers with it sitting in the driveway but we need
the rain.

I should be patching holes in the tailgate. Or rearranging the
garage/shop so I can get the jeep out of the weather.

Only one thing worse than laying on concrete under the jeep.

Laying on gravel under the jeep!

Take care,

skyjeep50 · Post by **skyjeep50** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:30 am

Removing and replacing the engine in a M38 is a one person job. Two sets of hands are useful when lowering it back in place but not absolutely necessary. Its just a lot of wrenching to remove the floor panels and other connections. I prefer to remove the entire engine, trans and transfer and all accessories as a unit because 1. it was intended to be removed that way and 2. because I can work on the entire package at bench-top height without having to crawl around under the jeep other than remove/attach the transmission cross support in place. Its a matter of preference.

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... ght=#54193

STXM38A1 · Post by **STXM38A1** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:09 am

Good pics in your link. Setting the engine + at table height to work on can save a lot of back aches.
Also, showing the entire power plant being pulled is a great reminder that you don't have to drain the coolant in order to work on the XMSN, XFER, clutch, rear main, etc.

Replacing clutch

Replacing clutch

Lift the engine

lifting the engine