M38A1 Winter Top Update

oilleaker1 · Post by **oilleaker1** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:56 pm

Few M38A1's had the doors and side curtains. It was a field install kit put on later. To install the side curtains and doors, you have to put 4 rod sockets underneath the holes in the body which are already there. Two go for the bottom door pivot, and two for the vertical side rods behind the doors. There also is a upper "P" clamp that goes over the horizontal side rods between the windshield and vertical rod behind the door. This "P" clamp has a larger hole in it for the vertical side rod. You will need to do some adjusting and bending of the door frames to fit the Jeep. You also need to install the sliders on the rear upper windshield, and 4 turnbuckles for the lower door front on each side of the tub. The door canvas is not fun. It is permanently installed UNDER the rear door closer handles which on mine are peened in place. You have to grind the peen off to remove the handle in order to install the new canvas under the handle covers. Then spot weld/peen the handles back on. Now comes the confusion. The military drawings show 3 footmans loops on top of the upper small shelf, on each side for the 3 lower side curtain straps. I've seen these in 3 different locations. On the side, above the shelf, on the shelf, or on the side below the shelf. If you put the normal footman loops on top of the shelf as pictured, the metal ends of the straps will not turn that corner. Not enough room. You would need the taller footmans loops if you use that location. I asked about this before I drilled 12 holes. Good thing. Thought you fellows would like to know this. Oilly

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:25 pm

Hey John,
Looking at Wes' top pages I can see your confusion. The kit only comes with six. Yet in a couple of photos from manuals there are only three per side, or as many as five visible. Finally in an early example of the top bow arrangement that photo shows them horizontally down on the side.

Did the A1 come with any footman loops in that area of the tub? I'm also wondering if you'd want some to tie the top and doors down with while stored.
The M38 came with a whole host of the things.

Take care,
Brian

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:39 pm

Ok,
In the vintage photos, maybe second to the last page are some shots of an
A1 crated, probably in the Willys factory. I see at least two footman loops
on the top of the side that are being used to tie all of that junk down.

Probably safe to assume the two on the very top came from the factory
on both sides. Note the bows (and I assume the top and doors) are included.

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... _photo.php

Take care,
Brian

oilleaker1 · Post by **oilleaker1** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:57 pm

Correct my friend Brian! Mine had all the stock stuff for the summer top and the original top. It had firing platoon, battery C stenciled on the back. I saved it. It's rotton and leaks so bad you might as well take it off. The new top from WeeBee fits pretty darn good. I called Dave who owns WeeBee and he told me about the side footman's loops. A good guy. I recommend him. So does Jpet who makes tops himself. Can't get a better referal. Doors are now on, footmans loops and door latches are next. I'll send you some pictures. It looks so good it makes your sticker peck out.

Very cool Jeep I have. Original paint, original unit markings, original hood numbers. 100 amp system with selenium rectifier and I bought and bolted a RT 67 radio right back in place. RT 67 was the artillery unit radios. Mine most likely went to Korea. Fort Sill Oklahoma according to Wes. It was surplused to Scribner Neb. as a Civil Defense Jeep. They never repainted it. The title was in the name of the first buyer from the city auction. It has a RMD replacement F head , all fording stuff. No lockers though!

Oilly

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:27 pm

Very lucky guy you are, John!

Yes, I was going to suggest giving Dave a shout. A couple of his
top rod photos show footman loop detail.

Pics?

Post by **wesk** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:56 pm

My Photo album on the A1 top is quite clear on the footman loops. The factory provided the top of the sides loops (2 ea side) and the top of the wheel houses inboard edges 2 per side for tying down equipment. Not the canvas side curtain. The additional 3 footman loops per side on the stepped ledge for tying down the side curtain straps. These 3 loops appear in the same place on the stepped ledge in the 1952 M38A1 service manual TM 9-804A and the 1955 TM 9-8014. It was errors in following the kit drawings that got the occasional 3 loops sets installed further down the side of the tub! The right wheel house also had additional footman loops for storing the axe and both wheel houses had an outboard loop on the rear ends of the wheel houses for the tying down the empty top bows.

For some unkown the artist on this illustration from TM 9-8014 brushed out the 3 clamps on the stepped ledge. But no worries since the other 6 illustration in the two manuals all show the 3 on each side on the stepped ledge.

The door lower hinge socket and rear end of door steel rod sockets are both shown on the drawing that comes with the side curtain/door kit.

oilleaker1 · Post by **oilleaker1** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:20 am

Wes, those illustrations show the small height footmans loops on the shelf for the side curtains. The only way they would work is if there is no metal end installed on the curtain straps. Otherwise, you need the taller type footmans loops. Dave at WeeBee said that the short height ones were frequently used on the sides because of this. John

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:27 am

I guess you remove the loops to attach the curtain straps, John!

Post by **wesk** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:45 am

I guess you remove the loops to attach the curtain straps, John!

No! If the short loops will not accommodate the large metal tips on your new straps then just install the tall loops or do what the Army often did in the field and move your short loops lower to the flat side of the tub.

oilleaker1 · Post by **oilleaker1** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:23 pm

I guess I'm a "field guy". They are now on the side. Top fits better that way too.

John

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:46 pm

Prolly help keep out that blowing snow, too...

oilleaker1 · Post by **oilleaker1** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:59 pm

Air mail and the right package I'd sell/send you some to Texas. Oilly

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:10 pm

Thank you My Friend but they would really stick out against all that rust!

Someday, maybe.

B

RICKG · Post by **RICKG** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:55 pm

4x4M38 wrote:Thank you My Friend but they would really stick out against all that rust!

Someday, maybe.

B

Rust? You cannot slay the dragon with rust on your broadsword!

Post by **wesk** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:03 pm

Probably safe to assume the two on the very top came from the factory on both sides. Note the bows (and I assume the top and doors) are included.

The M38A1 left willys with the top bow set and the top only. No side curtains, no doors, no door retainers or hinges. Yes the top two per side loops came from Willys.