Axe Handle Fact or Fiction?

w30bob · Post by **w30bob** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:29 am

Hi Guys,

I want to mount my pioneer axe in my M38A1. I have the bracket and will get the straps, but first I need to figure out the handle. The fawn's foot handle on it now is too long......ie, hits the passenger seat back. Reading online some say the handle should be a shorter straight one, called a rafting axe handle. But no one mentions how they know this.

Can someone confirm if the handle should be a rafting axe handle.......or should I just cut a few inches off my fawn's foot? Does anyone still make rafting axe handles, if that's what I need? I didn't see any on the web just now.

thanks,
bob

wilfreeman · Post by **wilfreeman** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:17 pm

Before I installed my radio on the passenger wheelwell, I had a regular length, 4# axe from a newer pioneer toolkit installed. Here's a pic of it right after I bought it at the rally - before I refinished it. It fit fine without hitting the seat.

I have heard the axe situation argued both ways, but I am cheap - I won't pay $80 for a "correct" axe when a standard $15 one will look just fine. Who will know besides MVPA Gold level judges anyway that the M38a1 MIGHT have come with a shorter axe?. I'm sure most of the Jeeps out there had whatever axe they could find (if any at all) installed.

Post by **wesk** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:20 pm

Read the M38A1 ORD 7 & 8.

This is the correct M38A1 Axe as called out in those manuals:

Axe, Single Bit 4 lb head, 36.5 in. long 41-A-1277
FSN 5110-222-0455 NSN 5110-00-293-2336

& this is the correct shovel:

Shovel, Hand Rd-pt D-hdl Fed Spec GGG-S-326 Type IV, class A, style 1, size 2 41-S-3170 FSN 5120-293-3336 NSN 5120-00-293-3336

w30bob · Post by **w30bob** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:00 am

Thanks Wes. Per the NSN for the axe it should have a curved handle, 31 inches long. The axe NSN describes it this way:

HANDLE LENGTH 31.000 INCHES NOMINAL
HEAD WEIGHT 4.000 POUNDS NOMINAL
CUTTING EDGE LENGTH 4.750 INCHES NOMINAL

SPECIAL FEATURES AX IS USED FOR GENERAL UTILITY USE IN FORESTRY WORK; IT HAS A FORGED, HARDENED STEEL HEAD, A GROUND POLISHED CUTTING EDGE, AND AN ELLIPTICAL TAPERED EYE FOR THE HANDLE; SINGLE-BIT, MEN'S (DAYTON) PATTERN AX HAS A CURVED HICKORY HANDLE AND FLAT-TOP FACE FOR STRIKING

regards,
bob

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:46 am

Hey Matt,
Where does one find a 15 dollar axe??

wilfreeman · Post by **wilfreeman** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:33 am

I bought it at the Georgia Steel Soldiers rally in 2012. I am looking for a shovel now - plenty of Mutt shovels out there, but they are about 3" too long. I guess I could shorten the handle if it came down to it.

Post by **wesk** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:18 am

Bob,

The NSN's didn't come into play until the 1970's. When specs disagree between an NSN and an FSN for the early jeeps follow the FSN spec.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:23 pm

Hey Matt,
That's what you get for trying to stuff your shovel under the hood!
Lol!

wilfreeman · Post by **wilfreeman** » Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:45 am

I guess so! Like I said, I'm too cheap to buy a $75 one and don't want to buy a $45 Omix Ada. Maybe I'll buy a Mutt shovel and shorten it 3"?

w30bob · Post by **w30bob** » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:35 am

Brian,

You can still find cheap (good quality) pioneer tools out there, but you have to go to the military meets to get them. I went to the MTA meet in NJ last Saturday and there was a guy with a pile of NOS US made #2 shovels, 37.5 inches long with metal D-handle that fit my M38A1 perfectly. I bought 2 for $10 each.

Same guy was also selling NOS US made 4 lb axes with fawn's foot handles for $20 each. Two of those followed me home as well. The handle is too long for the A1, but fit the pioneer racks on my M37s perfectly. I'll swap a newer handle on and cut it down to fit the jeep.

But my point is there are still cheap tools out there, buy you need to avoid the shipping costs. Has anyone else noticed how much shipping charges have increased recently? It's getting a bit nuts out there when shipping costs more than most of the stuff you buy.

regards,
bob

wilfreeman · Post by **wilfreeman** » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:25 am

At the Denton rally the other weekend a guy was selling the newer plastic handled shovels for $20 - wish they were metal. You're correct - shipping is a killer in many cases. I found the Mutt shovel for $23, but shipping one state over, is over $18! What are you gonna do - either do without until you run across one or suck it up and pay the extra $$.

w30bob · Post by **w30bob** » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:26 am

Matt,

For the shovel at least there's another option. If you can find a decent blade at your local flea market or yard sale you can get a nice wooden handle with metal D-handle from Tractor Supply for about $9. You can shorten it if needed and rivet on the used blade. I believe the handles TS sells are a True Temper product.

regards,
bob

wilfreeman · Post by **wilfreeman** » Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:01 pm

I've actually considered doing that. I have a fork with a metal d handle. I'm going to look around because I might have an old shovel too.

Post by **wesk** » Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:07 pm

For those of you working on a super factory class resto keep in mind you do not need any Pioneer Tools. They didn't leave Willys with them!

wilfreeman · Post by **wilfreeman** » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:14 pm

Not here - I'm too cheap to be correct! Mine is (sort of) mimicking what was in my dad's arty unit in 1969.

I found am old #2 shovel with a cracked handle and bent tip. I revived the handle, straightened and welded up the tip. I found am older metal d handle fork and removed the handle from it. I shortened it so that the shovel and handle fit comfortably in the mounts on the Jeep (ended up being 37.5" tip to handle - I know the spec is 36.5"). I "made" a rivet with a screw and nut, tightened it up and tack welded a rivet shape, then finished it with the grinder. Painted the whole thing 24087. Will post pics tonight. Saved that $$an's only spent about 3hrs or so making it!

Next thing - how does the strap route around the handle?