mdainsd's M38 project

mdainsd · Post by **mdainsd** » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:58 pm

I would like to narrow down when my M38 body was built, but.

The patent/vin number tag is long gone, all that remains are the four screws

So that doesn't leave much to help date the body. Using the M38 reference book it has the following traits:

"Early Firewall"

"Early dash" No big hole cut in it, just two that judging from the job were shade tree additions.

But... The only data plate on the dash where there should be several was a long Willys CJ2A type. I have that one, but there is no information to be gained from it such as a number. There are also no holes for the other data plates, and no holes for the later plate holder.

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4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:49 pm

Well we'd sure like to see that plate, as well as more photos of your jeep.

mdainsd · Post by **mdainsd** » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:35 pm

I can do that. Here are some of the Jeep. I bought this as a fully restored rebuilt CJ2A chassis and oh yeah you can have the body that came on it. It was in a pile in the corner of the building. It had a CJ2A windshield, hood and grille. The windshield has been changed to an M38. The grille has been changed to a M38, but that grille is another story all in its own.

That CJ data plate is laying on the fender. I will get a picture of it posted.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:01 pm

You have the early firewall.

But do you have the first early firewall?

Photo maybe with the air cleaner removed?

See Wes' photo pages for a look at all three.

Post by **Ryan_Miller** » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:13 pm

Yes, photos of the firewall are your best bet to narrow it down some.

mdainsd · Post by **mdainsd** » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:50 pm

Thank you. I will have to post some pictures of the fire wall. It is slightly different than the pictured one as "First Early", In the pictured one there are four small mounting studs on the raised areas of the fire wall (the oval shaped one and the long one that appears to stiffen up the air cleaner mounting point). Mine does not have the studs or even holes for them.

Is this where the ignition filter I have read about would have mounted to the firewall? When did that filter come into play? I assumed, right off the bat. But never assume...

If so, then according to the book, my tub is later than 5/51 (MC20600) when the filter left the firewall, but that contradicts what Wes annotaited the photo with ???

And before 9/51 (MC34151) Firewall change.

Is it possible to narrow further with only the tub to go on?

Post by **Ryan_Miller** » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:57 pm

Production started with the filter on the firewall, then moved to an internal filter on the distributor. If I recall that was 5/51 - without my notes handy.

Hoping no additional holes were put in or removed from the firewall over the years, 5/51 to 9/51 may be as close as we can get since the other parts that changed are bolt on items which got replaced easily over the years.

mdainsd · Post by **mdainsd** » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:09 pm

here is a pic of that portion of the firewall:

And the only data plate in the data plate area.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:55 pm

That's the early firewall.

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... _photo.php

The middle and late ones don't even have those
two raised areas where the 10/32 studs go.
It also looks like I can see what's left of a cut off
stud to the right in the dark area.

Look behind the cowl. Those four studs have flat heads
that were spot welded in the dished in area.

I bet they are there.

Well rats my iPhone never lets me post the photo
correctly...

mdainsd · Post by **mdainsd** » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:08 pm

Unfortunately, we will never know. The battery box completely covers those features from the inside. Im gently sanding them down to see if I can get back to OD.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:37 pm

The raised areas where the filter mounted are only on the early firewall.
On the middle and late versions the one on the drivers side ends just below stud for the air cleaner bracket.

I bet if you sand those raised areas where the radio filter studs went you'll
find cut and ground off studs, filled and painted.

In any case I'm convinced you have the early firewall.

Post by **wesk** » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:07 pm

Take a closer look. These two raised sections are even with the bottom of the battery box and will be easy to see with a flashlite since the front face of the battery box is about a 1 1/2" away from the firewall at the bottom.

Look at the 1 1/2" piece of black rubber battery box drain hose. The two raised indents on your firewall start at the same height and about 4 to 5" to the left. You should be able to see the flat head of the studs.

Here's another view near that drain hose. The first indent with the flat heads of it's 2 studs will be just about 2 or 3" further to the left right behinf the Yellow "FWD"

Your firewall photo is an exact match to the top one in my M38 body photo album. What makes you say"

If so, then according to the book, my tub is later than 5/51 (MC20600) when the filter left the firewall, but that contradicts what Wes annotaited the photo with ???

Ryan's book needs to be updated so it shows the actual 1st early firewall. Your firewall is a match for the 1st early firewall meaning your M38 tub was originally built somewhere between Sep 1950 and May 1951. Ryan's top firewall would have been produced from May 51 thru Sep 51.

That CJ2A data plate has no relevence to this M38 tub discussion other than it was an attempt of a prior owner to retain the ID of his CJ2A frame even though he installed an M38 tub on it. The dash is the early individual mounted data plate dash and if you examine it close enough you'll see the original filled holes. Sanding is not the best way to uncover these filled holes. Glass bead blasting would leave more original evidence.

Post by **Ryan_Miller** » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:34 am

Yes, I need to update the book!

I have run across some more production and testing photos in some military Journals too.

Problem is getting it all to fit/ spaced out properly and then the time to add the information and write/edit the work.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:42 am

Yes good suggestions Wes.

I was going to tell him that but remembered there is a bracket welded to the
tub on the right the box is bolted to as the tub is dished forward at that point.

That stands the box proud of the firewall at that point but it is nearly flush
to the drivers side due to the area being deflected into the drivers compartment.

Those weld studs have flat heads because of the tight clearance between the firewall and box. The heads are below the main firewall surface.

In any case he does have the early firewall. Very cool.

mdainsd · Post by **mdainsd** » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:52 am

No joy here. Yes the side of the battery box where the drain tube goes is an inch or so away from the fire wall. But the area we are interested in, the battery box is flush up against the fire wall (Cant even get a piece of sheet metal between the two). My belief is that those features on the firewall are raised exactly because of this. Those raised areas provide clearance for the heads of the welded in studs, so they don't interfere with the battery box.