What Starter is This?

[Quatro64]

I picked up a Jeep under the auspice that it was an M38. After some inspection I discovered that it was not. It’s a civilian model with an M38 tub on it as evidenced by the lack of the two grooves for belts on the pulleys, the radiator being attached to the frame, the voltage regulator being attached to the fender, no grill hinge and a few other things common with the actual M38.

No big deal to me. Still a fun Jeep.

What I’m running into is, the bendix on the starter was already missing a couple of teeth when I got it. After cranking it over for a few months the problem with the teeth has gotten worse and now I’m missing more. I’m going to go ahead and replace the starter with a new one, but I’m having trouble identifying it. I wondered if this was an original 6V starter from a CJ that someone strapped a 12V battery to and caused the bendix damage.

Normally I would say it was a 4113 but it doesn’t have the bushing and spring on the end of it like I see in all of the other pictures. What do you guys think?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/dJWtw62VXqppf9bi8


https://photos.app.goo.gl/tsZyKoXcwiR92vEL8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/n6nRmkhui14GPNov8










If I’m wanting to make sure that I have a 12V starter in this, is there anything specific with buying another one I need to know?

[Zane]

looks like a 4113 mb cj2a starter, probably have a mismatched bendix and flywheel combo

[wesk]

It may just have a different drive installed or the armature may be different. No data plates on the starter? I think it's a CJ3A MZ4137 or MZ4163 starter. Both of these have a 9 tooth pinion for use with the M38's 124 tooth flywheel ring gear. The MZ4113 had a 10 tooth pinion for use with the WWII & CJ2A 97 tooth flywheel ring gears.

This is the MZ4113 drive:



This is a CJ3A MZ4137:



and a MZ4163:



By the way Trey, I made it easier for you to post photos here. I opened your own album on our Members Album page. I even loaded your starter photos to it already and added them to the first post above.

Here's your album:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... _album.php

Here's the rules:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... opic&t=498

Here's the tutorial for loading your album:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... _album.php

Here's the tutorial for posting your photos:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... pic&t=8670

[Quatro64]

Data Plate: absolutely none. Been quite frustrating. The only identifying marks I can find are the ones in the picture. Which, from all my GoolgleFoo, I can’t find anything about those numbers that is helpful.

I think it has already undergone some changes for the 12V upgrade. The gas tank for instance is working just fine on the 12 V battery and the gauge is brand new. So I made the assumption that some of it has been done already. Of course, I may not understand how it works yet.

So let me ask you guys this way, with the premise that I take full responsibility for the final decision, if you were going to buy a new starter based off the information you see here, which one would you get? What other information would you want to know before you did? I’m going to get a new starter for it one way or another. I’m just looking for some better educated individuals as to what to choose.

[4x4M38]

I’d be darn sure what flywheel I had.

There are photos in Wes’ pages on how to identify the different flywheels.

As noted, the pinion damage could be due to a mismatch between the pinion gear and the flywheel.

Take care,

[mdainsd]

I’d be darn sure what flywheel I had.

There are photos in Wes’ pages on how to identify the different flywheels.

As noted, the pinion damage could be due to a mismatch between the pinion gear and the flywheel.

Take care,

Not to mention the broken/missing mounting ear.

[Quatro64]

Makes sense. I’ll get a measurement of that fly wheel this evening and follow up.

[wesk]

Jeeps gave you three different flywheels from 1941 thru 1971 on the L & F-134's.

97 Tooth MA, MB, GP, GPW, GPA, & CJ2A uses 10 tooth pinion MZ4113 starter
124 Tooth CJ3A and Early M38. Uses 9 tooth pinion starter
129 Tooth. Late M38, M38A1, M170, CJ3B, CJ5 uses 9 tooth pinion starter.

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gall ... .sized.jpg

My money says you are running a 10 tooth Pinion MZ4113 starter with a 124 or 129 tooth flywheel. Your pinion looks like it has been chewing up the incorrect flywheel.

Gets some photos up on your photo page to help ID which engine you have and then decide which flywheel 124 or 129 tooth you wish to use. You will need to match your engine's bell housing to the correct flywheel for it. If your MZ4113 starter fit the bell you have ok then you either have the very early MB/GPW/CJ2A bell or the early CJ3A & M38 bell which means you need a chip free 124 tooth flywheel and a 12 volt ciccy starter with a 9 tooth pinion that mounts with two 1/2" diameter bolts.