M38 help identify bearing parts found in front axle

ThomasTausend · Post by **ThomasTausend** » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:32 am

Hi guys,

removed my steering knuckles today to replace the knuckle bearings and in my driver side knuckle i found these parts of a needle bearing (knuckle bearing for size reference)

Here's your photo reduced from 776K to 144K.

It‘s too big for a knuckle bearing yet too small for a wheel bearing. Could this have worked up it‘s way from the differential? Opened the differential a while back but everything seemed ok.

Thanks for your help!
Thomas

Post by **wesk** » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:15 pm

Hello Thomas,

Looks like residue from a prior axle joint failure. The piece of washer looks like the thrush washer that sets around the inboard half of the axle in the end of the axle housing tube and the pin looks like one of the two ball retaining pins from the knuckle joint. You may want to take a closer look, you may find a damaged axle joint and shattered thrust washer.

I think you have found the remains of Pin B or F.

I think you have found the remains of an old thrust washer item H

As a side note your photo is way too large. The posting rules limit photo sizes to around 200K and yours is 750K. Try to adjust your selected photos to a file size in the permitted range.

ThomasTausend · Post by **ThomasTausend** » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:49 pm

Hi Wes,

thanks for the quick reply and the explanation and pictures. I know that the last owner changed an axle shaft, since I have a bendix style shaft on the passenger side and a shaft with u-joints on the driver side (where i found the broken parts). I guess (and hope) they just did a bad job and left some junk in there. Will check everything tomorrow (it‘s 01:45 at night in germany right now

).

Thanks again!

Concerning the big image size: Sorry! I was posting from my iPhone and the image hoster I used had an over-simplified mobile page, not allowing you to choose a smaller size. Didn‘t even know mjeeps offered image hosting themselves!

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:45 am

ThomasTausend wrote: I know that the last owner changed an axle shaft, since I have a bendix style shaft on the passenger side and a shaft with u-joints on the driver side (where i found the broken parts).

Just curious, and nothing in the manuals I could find. Is it ok (or advisable) to mix axle shaft types? I thought (could be wrong, rookie!) that the max turning angle for Bendix, Rzeppa, and Spicer joints were different.

Unless all you have to do if you want to mix them is make sure the turning angle stop on each side is properly adjusted? Perhaps both set to the smallest max turning angle of the two types you're using, which I think is the Bendix (smallest), then Rzeppa, then Spicer (largest).

Post by **wesk** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:05 am

There you have it! Asked and resolved by the same voice.

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:11 am

Thanks Wes!

One more question: when the M38 was in service, did the Army routinely mix axle joint types?

If yes, I suppose they also changed the tag.

Post by **wesk** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:19 am

I can't answer that with any accuracy. I know I wouldn't simply to keep the books straight. But if I had to I would remark or change the tag.

Jeff_Lee · Post by **Jeff_Lee** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:56 am

Were original axles externally tagged as to the type of joint? Just been thru my DANA 25 (1951 M38) and no tags that I saw. It currently has two Rzeppa's. There is a gear ratio tag.
Where would it be and what does it look like?

thanks Jeff

Post by **wesk** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:12 pm

Yes.

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:47 pm

Maybe I missed it in the ORD9 but I can't find the tags listed. Didn't see a TB covering it either. Still looking...

Assuming an Army mechanic would change the tag on an axle to match what he just installed --- perhaps tags came over-packed in the box with the new axle? Anybody seen an M38 with two different tags on it?

Or maybe, so long as he adjusted the turn-stops properly, it doesn't matter what joint is in the knuckle? Maybe the absence of a tag (mechanic throws away the wrong tag on the change) indicates they were different and that was enough.

Might explain why these tags seem to be so rare? Just a thought........

Post by **wesk** » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:53 pm

It is not uncommon for a complete sub-assembly built by Spicer for Willys to not have mounted hardware and tags not listed in the ORD 9 for the end item M38 or M38A1. They would be found in the manufacturer's parts manuals if the Army does not maintain an IPL for the axle assembly alone.

The plates themselves rare? Not really:

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:14 am

From this one and other posts and forums, I was under the impression these tags are hard to come by:

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... =joint+tag

I've been looking for several years now and have never seen NOS or re-pop tags offered anywhere. Once in a blue moon a take-off surfaces with a proud price and gets snapped up pdq!

Post by **wesk** » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:59 am

I didn't say they were not hard to find. I said they are not as rare as you mentioned since I have seen so many on the axle ends. Yes they are far and few between on the market and can be pricey but if I were looking for a pair to finish off my project I would scour the junk yards not the MV parts dealers. Then if you loose all hope you simply measure one up, cut a matching piece of soft metal and get the letter stamp sets out. Drill the two holes and bolt them up.

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:41 am

Thanks Wes!
As far as I can see, there hasn't been an old jeep in a junkyard within 100 miles of me in decades. I suspect the sooner I lose all hope and start fabricating some, the sooner a real pair will land in my lap!

I've kind of been waiting for one of our venerable MV parts dealers to mass produce some faithful re-pops for a fair price........I bet they'd sell like hot cakes!