Rear lifting shackle shims

GregS · Post by **GregS** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:49 am

Could someone please describe where these go on an M38? Were they used on all years?

Are they used between the rear crossmember and lifting bracket?

Denis · Post by **Denis** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:14 am

Greg,

Good question. Hope someone with the definitive answers comes on.

I assume you are talking about the thin plate, about 1X3". I just found them under each of the rear lifting shackle brackets during disassembly and I put them back in the same position, between the lifting shackle and the bumperette. I tried to find reference to them in ORD 9 but couldn't. Now I'm going to try a search of this site, the Yahoo site and G 503 - which is what I should have done before starting this! I'd like to hear the purpose as well - pressure distribution, clearance???

Denis

Post by **Ryan_Miller** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:21 pm

If you are talking about the lift ring shackle plates:

I belive they are a spacer, maybe to help spread out the load like a washer.

Wes commented to me about them one time and I have forgotten what he told me.

GregS · Post by **GregS** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:47 am

Denis,

That is exactly the piece I am talking about. So it goes under the rear brackets?

Post by **Ryan_Miller** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:49 pm

Greg,

I believe they go under the nuts on the back side.

I could be wrong, so anyone else that knows better can speak up!

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:24 am

Resurrecting these ancient posts as I believe I came across definitive info that the spacers go directly behind the shackle bracket (between the shackle bracket and bumperette) --- not on the back side of the frame rail under the nuts.

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules.php? ... ift+spacer

See paragraph 43 on page 52 of the July 1952 TM9-1804B: "Place a rear lifting shackle and spacer in position on the bumperette. Line up the four holes in the bumperette with like holes in the body. Secure bumperette and lifting shackles with four bolts, lock washers, and nuts."

Still no clue why Willys thought the spacer was necessary. With them only being 1/16-inch thick, clearance or reinforcement don't seem to be obvious reasons. Other than being listed in the ORD9, I couldn't find any mention of the spacers in any other M38 TM.

Post by **wesk** » Sun Apr 24, 2022 11:03 pm

Really not definitive, more like vague since it says position without following up with exactly what goes where relative to the applicable layers.

At any rate I agree that the spacer serves no sensible purpose between the lift shackle bracket and the bumperette. It belongs like I said several times now on the front side of that rear THIN crossmember to reinforce the contact area of the nuts.

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Mon Apr 25, 2022 6:31 pm

"Place a rear lifting shackle and spacer in position on the bumperette."

Seems pretty clear to me what goes where.

Maybe some day the Willys engineering drawing for the assembly will surface.

Post by **wesk** » Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:22 pm

For the sake of keeping your discussion speeding right along I will repeat myself again!!!!!!!!!!!

What "POSITION"?????? They are being quite vague on purpose because the technical writer was not sure which went on which side and he probably considered the already installed bumperette an assembly together with the crossmember it was bolted to and finally common industrial sense tells you the doubler (Spacer) belongs on the front face of the crossmember to reinforce the the shackle nuts resting area since the rear crossmember is much thinner then the front bumper and frame rail

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:16 am

wesk wrote:...already installed bumperette

Wes,
The title of paragraph 43 is "Install Rear Lifting Shackles, Bumperettes, and Pintle Hook."
The instructions don't read like the bumperettes are "already installed" --- they each have 4 mounting holes (2 in common with the lift shackle) and it clearly says to line up 4 holes and fasten with 4 bolts. I don't see any way they could be "already installed".

What position? The TM clearly says "Place a rear lifting shackle and spacer in position on the bumperette. Nothing vague about that to me.
When I assembled mine I found it a little awkward to hold and align the lifting shackle, spacer, and bumperette with bolts to the holes in the crossmember all at the same time.

If Willys wanted the spacer under the nuts behind the crossmember they might've said something like this instead?

Place a rear lifting shackle in position on the bumperette. Line up the four holes in the bumperette with like holes in the body. Secure bumperette and lifting shackles with four bolts, a spacer on the lifting shackle bolts, lock washers, and nuts."

But that's not what they said.

In my searching this topic I recall seeing at least two maybe three members who reported finding the spacer under the lifting shackle on the bumperette side of the crossmember on what they believe or implied is an unmolested M38.

I don't recall any member claiming they found the spacer under the nuts behind the crossmember of an unmolested M38.

Without evidence to the contrary, I went with the TM description and the unmolested M38 evidence.
The good news is they're easy to move should evidence surface where they really belong.

Post by **wesk** » Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:59 pm

My dearest RonD try to have a nice day!

keats · Post by **keats** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:49 am

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gall ... .sized.png

looks a little more specific on where the parts go. from the m38a1 maintenance manual

Naugha · Post by **Naugha** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:55 pm

Apples & Oranges

Did the M170 replace the spacers/doubler plates on the inside surface of the M38 rear bumper with washers or are there plates on the other side in this pic?

.... and why does the M170 diagram show the lifting eye pointing 'out' rather than toward the center of the jeep?

..... or have my eyes got crossed again.

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:23 pm

Don,
That photo seems quite clear to me. What manual and page did you find it on?
It definitely shows where the spacer isn't.
Of course, that doesn't prove where it is.

Unless the printed install instructions were followed --- which would make it fairly safe to assume that unless the spacers got deleted altogether, they're on the other side of the crossmember, between the shackle bracket and the bumperette.

And now we see one reason why the shackle pins get inserted from the inside pointing to the outside.
So the lifting rings can be easily reversed.

Thanks to Gary for posting the M38A1 information!

I'm waiting for Wes' opinion of all this.

Mike_B · Post by **Mike_B** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:36 pm

Ron, across the old car industry pictures in manuals are not always correct as many times they were taken of prototype vehicle before actual production started. And, many times items would be painted to look pretty or for contrast for the photo shoot, but in reality they never were...

I'm also having a hard time believing the Army would require a shim between the rear crossmember and the bumperette, what purpose does it serve in that location?

Mike B