Strap Routing for Top Bow storage.

Post by **wesk** » Sat Dec 16, 2023 2:10 am

That's all great, I appreciate your efforts, but I will point out none of the vendors list part numbers (WO or ORD) or dimensions for their straps.

Makes ordering the correct one difficult.
Hence my questions.

Now that you have the dimensions you can get on the Phone with the vendors and insist they take the needed measurements before you buy!

JBJeep · Post by **JBJeep** » Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:52 pm

Yes, but....
Before I ask a hardworking guy, a vendor who likely doesn't have a staff and will have to do it himself, and who I'll probably need a favor from in the future, to drop everything to measure a pretty obscure piece of inventory that I MIGHT buy from them for <$15?

-Can you give me your opinion if they have the spring type buckle?
That would jive with what John (at MWM) said and point me towards KW.
If they are, I can buy from KW (since MWM does not sell the top bow straps separately), or ask Peter DeBella if his have spring buckles.

Simple

I'm glad this isn't some complex vital part.

Like KW, PD says his are 100% correct. As I mentioned, he said his look like the one in the photos I referenced..which do not appear to have the fancy buckles.

I wonder how many well restored M-series Jeeps have the wrong WWII straps.

Gee, this such a relaxing hobby.
Come to think of it, I might go back to flying antique helicopters.

Post by **wesk** » Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:16 am

You really need to study your TM 9-8014 and ORD 9 SNL G-758 and ORD 7 SNL G-758 much more closely. It is quite obvious that the slip type buckles were used at the factory on the M series jeeps, NOT the spring loaded serrated tab versions. Yes the many users may have replaced old straps over the years with spring type but that is up to you depending on weather you want original or later replacements.

This is what the newer 592637 strap assembly (NSN 5340-00-505-6393) buckle ORD# 543486 looks like. Here's a link to the stock listing: https://aerobasegroup.com/nsn/5340-00-505-6393

The thumb operator spring lock was not on original strap buckles

JBJeep · Post by **JBJeep** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 12:27 am

Thanks for those illustrations.
The trouble is the vendors.photos do not show enough detail.

Then you have them saying what they have (spring type) is correct when the manual seems to say they aren't.

I'm a lifelong aircraft nerd.
I can get very esoteric about all manner of minutiae details.
But ID-ing a strap buckle by a part number is a new one for me.

Post by **wesk** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 1:24 pm

Well I believe I presented more than adequate evidence that slip type buckles were used by the factory on the M38 & M38A1. That is all I can do for you. If you wish to believe the person who stands to profit from the sale of the wrong (Not original) buckle to you that is your call.

JBJeep · Post by **JBJeep** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:44 pm

Wesk

I didn't say I didn't believe you.
It's just that I have had excellent service and advice from sellers like MWM.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:39 pm

Maybe I’m off my nut but both appear to have springs.

The latter model has the thumb jobbie on it.

Perhaps the vendors are selling the original type.

Yes, a photo would solve most if this.

Post by **wesk** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 12:39 am

I thought this photo was very clear. The correct buckle uses a sliding bar that locks against the strap whereas the spring operated one uses a thumb operate spring lever that traps the strap when your thumb is released.

This is an original M series strap buckle. No springs.

This is the newest version of the early buckle found under the post 1980's NSN.

This leaves you with one choice for correct from factory, one chioce for a much later supply system substitution which uses a thin spring shaped rod to catch the strap, and lastly a vendor located suitable substitute for a field replaced buckle with a thumb loaded latch mechanism.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 8:06 am

Hi Wes,
The drawing of the later (intermediate) version threw me.

Photos?
Here’s an eBay offering for five straps including two 20” top bow straps that appear to have the correct buckles and the sewn in loops:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/183751219612?m ... name=11051

Post by **wesk** » Fri Dec 22, 2023 11:00 am

Photo #7 in that ad shows they are clearly slide type buckles and would be correct.

JBJeep · Post by **JBJeep** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:44 am

KW lists all their M38A1 units with spring buckles.

Their slide type buckle is listed to fit the M38 and are 15" long.
Will that work on a M38A1?

Post by **wesk** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:56 pm

How's that 15" compare to the length specified in your M38A1's ORD 9 SNL G-758 parts manual?

Note: I am also an Aircraft nerd. Been wrenching and flying airplanes since 1966. I am 76 years young and still doing it. Have A&P, IA & PP with complex. I learned the importance of accurate parts research while still in the USAF working heavies and Army reserves working Hueys.

JBJeep · Post by **JBJeep** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 8:50 pm

I see that the manual says 22". I get it.
KW, who I'd guess know something, offer MB straps at 10.5", and M38 at 15.

So, will a 15" work?

RonD2 · Post by **RonD2** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 9:09 pm

JBJeep wrote:So, will a 15" work?

If you have one of these you could route it just like the manual shows and measure what works.
https://www.amazon.com/Measure-Flexible ... 7433?psc=1

QTM sells these sliding jaw buckle straps on fleabay. Call them and ask for a measurement.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/294029258628?h ... R8C97d2XYw

Post by **wesk** » Sat Dec 30, 2023 10:43 pm

Good Idea Ron. Or he could cut a 15" piece of string and try it around his folded top or on his windshield to hood latch.