M38 Starter Problem

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:54 pm

Gentlemen;

Just finished my M38 restoration and now I have a starter problem. I got my jeep running and drove it for a few weeks. But, the starter started to "grind" on a few start ups and now the starter only spins. My batteries are charged and the switch seems alright. I believe it is the clutch.

Before I pull it off and try to repair/rebuild...I need to ask if anyone else had this problem?

Thanks for any help you can give me.

Thomas
Charlotte, NC

hillbilly21 · Post by **hillbilly21** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:03 pm

Was the starter NOS or re-built before you installed it...??

Could be you need a new bendix drive..

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:02 am

HB21;

The starter is original from 1951 and looks like it has never been removed. Since our Jeep was in such good shape and running, we did an on frame restoration, cleaning, replacing, and resorting parts as needed.

The starter switch makes and the motor winds up to speed, but now does not engage the fly wheel. It was making a high pitched grinding sound, but has stopped. Now, when I step on the starter pedal it only make the more quiet "whering" motor sound.

I have original copy of the maintenance manual and the lists of all service parts. Do you think it is the clutch? Can it be rebuilt? Any idea where?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Thomas
Charlotte, NC

hillbilly21 · Post by **hillbilly21** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:46 pm

If it were me I would replace or have the starter rebuilt..

2nd ..I dont think the clutch has any thing to do with the starter..as far as re-building the clutch I would get up with a few members here and get one from them..

http://www.midwestmil.com/index.html

I have bought plenty from this man....

starter first then go for the clutch replacement

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:30 pm

HB21;

Yes, thanks...I talked to John at Midwest this afternoon and he has the parts I need for the starter and some others to finish our restoration. I will start on the repair this weekend and keep you posted.

Thanks for the help and support.

Regards;

Thomas
Charlotte, NC

Post by **wesk** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:32 am

Thomas is referring to the starter's "Overunning clutch" not the tranny to engine clutch. The start pedal has two functions. One is to push the starter's pinion into full engagement with the ring gear on the flywheel. Once this is accomplished the pedal then closes the main switch contacts to set the starter spinning. If the pedal does in fact push the pinion fully into engagement with the ring gear but as the switch engages the stater only spins without the pinio rotating the flywheel then in all liklyhood the overunning clutch has failed.

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:08 pm

Wes;

Thanks for the clarification. The starter is comming off next weekend...my Christmas present to myself. I have located several suppliers online that have the parts I need. Also, there is a starter shop here in town that can probably do a rebuild.

I plan to take the starter apart to assure which component failed. I then want to get it fixed ASAP so I can get back on the road.

Will keep you informed. Thanks again for all you help and support.

Regards;

Thomas
Charlotte, NC

ambec · Post by **ambec** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:32 pm

Maybe the overriding clutch is my problem. Got a NOS starter, put the sucker on, Yep, I should have checked it first before putting on the gen, reg, fender and wasted an afternoon. Went to check it, it just spins, no grinding, no nothing, just a spin. Needless to say, I am not a happy camper. Any input would be helpful, and how do you change out the overriding clutch?. thanks guys..Eric

Post by **wesk** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:13 pm

Eric,
Which starter do you have? Early MBP or late MCZ model. The over running clutch is operated mechanically when you push the starter kick pedal. The kick pedal is suppose to push the over running clutch COMPLETELY into engagement with the flywheel then it closes the switch for the starter motor to spin. A spinning only when the pedal is fully depresed usually means the throw of the over running clutch is not adjusted properly and is not moving all the way afte to engage the flywheel. This adjustemnt is done in two different ways depending on which starter you have.

ambec · Post by **ambec** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:26 am

Thanks, Wes. It is the early flat nose, not the later round nose. It could be that it is not throwing in all the way. Has two brass threaded plugs on it, internal spring and a lever that is straight with a hole it in, that I assume something goes in so the starter petal will go againest. I used a bolt that seemed to work okay until I find another. I manually pulled back on the lever also, still just the whirling. Hopefully just some adjusting somewhere. My manuel only shows the late starter. Thanks for the help. Eric

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:10 pm

Wes;

Forgive me for bothering you on this matter, but I am in a bit of a bind. You are probably the only one who can help.

I secured a new clutch and bearing assemblies for my Autolite 24 volt, MBP-4301UT early type starter. I took them to my repair man at the local starter shop, but he now refuses to make the repair. So, like everything else I am going to do it myself.

The rotor looks good. The clutch seems to be worn out, but all the other starter parts look fine. I have a wheel/hub puller and have put some WD40 on the clutch/armature shaft assembly. I have made a couple attempts to pull the clutch to no avail.

My question are...should I use heat on the clutch as I pull it? Should I cool down the rotor then add heat? Once out, should I try to re-varnish the rotor surface?

Based on the manuals I have, reassembly should not be a problem. Any help or advice you could give would be appreciated. Thanks.

Note, I have lots of pictures that could help others on this site.

Regards;
--
Thomas P. Schmelter
Charlotte, NC

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:42 am

Wes;

I believe I answered my own question with the help of your online support and technical articles.

Last weekend, I rebuilt my starter changing out the clutch and bearing assembly. I did have to use an electric heat gun and a bearing puller to remote the defective parts fron the rotor shaft. I came off fairly easily. Then I use heat again and a rubber mallet to install the new clutch/bearing assembly on to the rotor. I also disassembled and cleaned the switch assembly. When completed, a continuity check showed everything was nominal.

After totally cleaning, painting and lubricating the entire assembly, I installed it into the jeep this week. Yesterday, I engaged the starter pedal and the jeep started.

In this rebuild, I had a great deal of trouble re-installing the motor brushes on the aft shaft of the rotor. But, I finally came up with a process and made a tool to get them installed properly. Now, I am working on getting all the gauges to work properly.

Thanks again for your technical articles and all your help and support.

Regards;

Thomas
Charlotte, NC