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Fording valves
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:26 am
by Ray101
I've searched the forums for an answer to this question,but couldn't find one. Although someone asked a similar question a couple years ago he got no answer.
So my question is looking at ORD 9 SNL G-740 Sep 55 edition it shows the fording valve by the valve cover fig 01-12 item P valve PN 7372752 which supersedes PN 7372553
And the fording valve at the crossover tube fig 03-3 item G valve 7410836 which supersedes 8393083 which superseded 7375172.
So by my reading the valve cover fording valve and the crossover tube fording valve have different part numbers, yet looking at parts suppliers they often only list one, or maybe an early and a late version, but never any mention that these valves are different. Even Ryan Miller's book only talks of an early and late version. So are these two valves the same? And if so why does the parts manual show different part numbers for the different locations?
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:26 pm
by 4x4M38
Good luck Ray.
I asked essentially the same question two years ago with no replies.
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... +valve+pin
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:41 pm
by Ray101
Brian,
I saw your post and thought I'd try again. I can't believe this hasn't been discussed before. Maybe we are the only two that ever noticed
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:35 pm
by 4x4M38
Makes one wonder how many valves with the pin are in the wrong location.
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:26 pm
by wesk
They are two different valve assemblies. But the basic valves are the same Anderson Brass Company ball plug valves. The current manufacturer is Anderson Brass Company and they have superseded the air inlet valve with the crankcase control valve. So now you must provided the hose nipple for the air inlet valve or the 90 deg. male to female brass elbow for the crankcase control valve.
These are all the illustrations that clearly show these valves in out M38 pubs, TM 9-804, TM 9-8012, TM 9-1804A, TM 9-1804B, ORD 9 SNL G-740 Dated 1955, and ORD 9 SNL G-740 dated 1951.
Had you guys been more inquisitive you would have found this on your own!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:40 pm
by 4x4M38
But why does one have a pin and one does not Wes?
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:56 pm
by wesk
Had you done the research you'd have another question: What pin???? Do some hard staring at the illustrations!
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:29 pm
by 4x4M38
Well it looks like four or five of the valves in the above illustrations
show a pin that could provide a stop for the actuator to make sure
the ball does not over travel.
I've seen it in other illustrations.
My question remains. If in fact that's what it's supposed to do why is it
necessary in one location but not the other?
Tks,
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:35 pm
by wesk
I've looked at every installation photo and have not seen a pin. Post a pin viewable photo here so we can see what you are talking about.
The down leg on the handle is the stop. It is possible later units had a secondary stop pin in the body but I cannot find any illustration showing one.
The fact that Anderson Brass discontinued the crankcase valve SK950 and superseded it with the SK971 makes it clear that the SK971 with or without the pin will work in either position on the engine.
Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:18 am
by 4x4M38
Hi Wes,
The several examples I was referring to above show something protruding
upwards from below the nut. With the dated illustrations details are
hard to make out.
Do you think the pin they are referring to is the F, G, H and J assembly tgat
you put the cable through?
Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:28 am
by BCA
I believe the confusion is due to differing terminology between the 1951 and 1955 ORD 9 parts books.
The lower valve is described as being "w/pin" and upper valve is described as "wo/pin". What is this Pin?: I believe it is G740-7372554 which is described in 1951 ORD9 as "Pin, swivel, crankcase ventilating valve control wire". However the more accessible 1955 ORD9 calls it a "Swivel, crankcase ventilation valve control wire".
Now it appears that both valve use this swivel pin. For some strange reason, as far as the Ord9's were concerned the upper valve was supplied with the swivel pin while the lower valve was supplied without the swivel pin and a separate (quantity 1 only) swivel pin is described separately.
I believe that both valves are the same but for some strange reason one was supplied with the swivel pin included while the other was supplied without the swivel pin but a swivel pin was specified separately.......... Brian
Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:41 am
by Ray101
Thanks, Wes!!!
Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:17 am
by 4x4M38
Hi Brian,
That is the only thing that makes sense, and goes along with Wes' description of sometimes anal and confusing military supply parts descriptions.
Take care,
Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:12 am
by wesk
Brian,
You contradicted yourself there a couple of times:
I believe the confusion is due to differing terminology between the 1951 and 1955 ORD 9 parts books.
The lower valve is described as being "w/pin" and upper valve is described as "wo/pin".
The upper valve has always been the one that says with pin in both US ORD 9's.
What is this Pin?: I believe it is G740-7372554 which is described in 1951 ORD9 as "Pin, swivel, crankcase ventilating valve control wire". However the more accessible 1955 ORD9 calls it a "Swivel, crankcase ventilation valve control wire".
Both US ORD 9's call it a PIN, Swivel
Now it appears that both valve use this swivel pin. For some strange reason, as far as the Ord9's were concerned the upper valve was supplied with the swivel pin while the lower valve was supplied without the swivel pin and a separate (quantity 1 only) swivel pin is described separately.
b]You got the correct valves with & without here but missed half the pin, swivel quantities. The 51 ORD 9 shows only one pin, swivel but the 55 ORD 9 shows two Pin, swivel.[/b]
I believe that both valves are the same but for some strange reason one was supplied with the swivel pin included while the other was supplied without the swivel pin but a swivel pin was specified separately..........
This is probaby correct, Both valve are the same, which is why Anderson Brass superseded to only one part number for the two.
Brian
Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:34 am
by DJ
Now we need to work on global warming !!