M38 Identification

[Watchdog]

Hi,
Firstly I apologise that I can't post any photo's at this time. I bought a M38 a while ago and am slowly tackling it. I started the survey but have misplaced it and will need to start again (sorry Wes). As the vehicle doesn't have any serial number plates in either of the two locations I am working with what I can find so far. Researching Engine serial numbers and casting number has left me a little confused the engine serial number is RMC63753 which seems too low for the casting 804380-W-12-D-P5. Is that right? There is also a maintenance tag on the block from the 603COMBWKSPEME and job number/date 40M68. I think that the workshop is a Commonwealth service (possible Pakistan) having the EME designation. I was told from the gentlemen that I bought it from that he brought it with him from Burma to Australia. I started checking the paint layers and have found top to base green, beige/sand, grey, black. The vehicle runs but needs new fuel tank and lines and has had very little modification done to it. Any advice comments and thoughts would be appreciated.

[wesk]

Well I think it's best to start with the survey form and the photos. Engine serial is not common with 1st gen late block RMC's.

But no sense in Hyper Theroerizing without a solid evidence base.

Here's your album:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... _album.php

Here's the rules:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... opic&t=498

Here's the tutorial for loading your album:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... _album.php

Here's the tutorial for posting your photos:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... pic&t=8670

[Watchdog]

Thanks Wes, I have added a couple of photos I have handy of the paint, engine casting and serial and the workshop plate.







RMC63753

[Watchdog]

I hadn't considered that my M38 may be a CDN build, however after advice from Wes I a look at the front left chassis for the tell tale serial number. Under some think paint there is a pretty clear 38500. From what I have read this should be preceded by a 51- however while the serial is very clear I can't see any trace of the 51-. I believe this serial would indicate a US built vehicle transferred to Canadian service late '51, is that correct?

[wesk]

Your engine is the late casting that didn't enter production until the spring of 1952.

That serial, 63353 if for an M38 engine should have either an RMC or MC prefix.

Your number stamped on your frame 38500 does not look like a standard CAR #.





Have you removed paint below the driver's doorway sill?



Have you looked for the convoy light mounted at the rear frame?



Most M38CDN's have no JEEP script on the front of the tool box.


Normal Ford of Canada built M38CDN tool box front.


US built M38 tool box front.

[BCA]

The "38500" number stamped on the top front left frame is in the typical location for the Canadian CAR/CFR numbers that were normally prefixed with the year 51 or 52. This number, even if the year is missing, does not match the range of any known CAR/CFR numbers. However by coincidence it falls within the range of Willys serial numbers I have observed for the October 1951 Willys M38s that Canada acquired (observed range 373xx to 388xx). During rebuild the Willys serial number may have been stamped on the frame? It is unlikely a Canadian M38 unless it has other characteristic features, in particular the rear-mounted convoy light and dash-mounted switch.... Brian

[wesk]

Eric, is there a noticeable reason for the shackle bracket hole not being visible in your serial photo?

[Watchdog]

Thanks Brian and Wes, no, no reason just that the hole is just out of shot. Time is at a premium at the moment but I had a look at the rear of the jeep last night and can't see a convoy lamp or evidence that one was there and removed. Was the stamping of the Willys serial number a common or otherwise practice?
I will take some more photo's of the tool box dash and fire wall if that might help.

[wesk]

Willys stamped the WWII frame rail with the serial but none of the postwar Willys or Kaiser jeeps had a serial on the frame from the factory.

Some of the military depots would stamp a copy of the serial there during depot rebuilds.

[Watchdog]

I was able to get some quick shots of the Dash/Instrument panel and the front of the tool box. The 'Jeep' lettering is clear on the tool box so puts to bed the CDN build. There were no information plates with the vehicle either on the dash or on the panel behind the passenger seat. Is there enough occasions of the serial number being stamped on the frame to accept 38500 as the vehicle serial number?

[mdainsd]

Hello. I am going through the same adventure trying to date my M38 with no plates remaining.

1: Buy the book, very very helpful!

2: Ive learned enough that I will offer that your body is a "late production" version. The large hole in the dash is an indicator of this.

3: That should place it at at number MC34151 built Sept 1951 or later.

4: Less reliable, since it is easily removal is the instrument panel.Last used MC65042 Build date 4/52

Does it have an electrical receptacle on the passenger side beside the passenger seat?

This ameatuer places the S/N from MC34151 to MC65042 and the build date between Sept 51 to Apr 52. Lets see how this stands up to scrutiny

[Watchdog]

Thank you very much for the response. By the book do you mean the M38 Reference Guide? So by your references it looks likely that 38500 is in the right vicinity for the vehicle serial number. I will have a look tonight for the electrical receptacle.

[4x4M38]

Ah, but the thick plottens.

The hole in the dash did come from the factory on later units,
but was a modification done in the field when heaters were installed.

A better indication would be whether the dash has evidence of individually
installed dash plates. Then later holes for the plate used to cover the hole
if and when it was cut out.

Lots of things to look for. Check the front of the firewall for the four mounting
screws for the radio filter. See if you can identify which of the three firewalls
is installed.

[wesk]

A simple solution is to send me your completed M38 survey form!



It's obvious from your photo above that your dash is an early individual dash plate dash that has had the heater hole cut in the field and the dash plate mounting changed from directly to the dash to directly to a panel then to the dash.

MD34151 SEP 1951 was the last M38 with individual dash plates so we can all agree your jeep is before that serial.

[Watchdog]

That's some great detective work thank you very much. It seems it was too easy to draw a line from the number stamped on the frame. I am working my way through the survey and hope to have the bulk of the answers over this coming weekend.