NOS steering boxes...are they worth it?

linx310 · Post by **linx310** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:15 pm

The steering on my M38A1 is really bad. It has lots of slop, binds, and feels like i am arm wresting for control the closer i get to the edges of the steering range.

Above 35 mph it shimmys really, really, really, bad.

I am betting my worm gear + the bearings are bad. Are the NOS gear boxes like new or do they need work also?

Bill_F · Post by **Bill_F** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:58 pm

NOS would mean they are new. As long as they are not full of water they should be fine.

Post by **wesk** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:30 pm

I haven't seen many NOS gear boxes. MWM sells Army depot overhauls still tagged unused in the box. I believe they were about $375. So all you need to do is see if you can get the steering gear box back in shape yourself for less than $375. You should first analyse the steering system for slop and ID every loose part by shaking and pulling everything while an assistant holds the rest of the parts still. Then disassemble those parts found worn and see what you need. There is a huge deep empty pit there waiting for both your time and money.

1-Steering Gear Box
2-Steering Bellcrank.
3-Drag link
4-Tie rods
5-Steering knuckle pivot bearings
6-Wheel bearings

Just do a little parts page thumbing at AJP, DeBella, MWM, RAPCO and G503 and you'll see how quickly the money goes.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:21 pm

Amen to that.

I have a spreadsheet where I'm keeping costs.

The number at the bottom just keeps growing.

I was wondering what a steering box ready to be dropped in would be worth.
In 2009 it made financial sense to rebuild.

Today, well, I guess I'm pulling that sucker.

Brian

Post by **wesk** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:54 pm

Several point to keep in you head:

1-M38 (15.4; 13.4; 15.4) and M38A1 ( 19.1; 17.1; 19.1) are different steering ratios. The m38A1 ratio can work OK in an M38 but the M38 ratio is much too fast for the M38A1.

2-Some parts like worm gears and posts are getting very difficult to find.

I have not seen any NOS boxes in years. The only thing close I have seen is the Army depot overhauled in the box units M38A1/M170 MWM had.

OKCM38CDN · Post by **OKCM38CDN** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:40 pm

For what it is worth, my M-38 CDN had all that stuff you have...

I went in and rebuilt the steering box, new Tie Rod ends and Drag link rebuild, etc. I do not know the cost as I did not keep track of it, as I did it over time. End result is the steering is now fixed.

Just rebuilding the box did not fix my problem... lots of wear and worn out parts caused the problem thru the entire system...

Good Luck and take your time...

Bill_F · Post by **Bill_F** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:04 pm

wesk wrote:Several point to keep in you head:

1-M38 (15.4; 13.4; 15.4) and M38A1 ( 19.1; 17.1; 19.1) are different steering ratios. The m38 ratio can work OK in an M38A1 but the M38A1 ration is much too fast for the M38.

2-Some parts like worm gears and posts are getting very difficult to find.

I have not seen any NOS boxes in years. The only thing close I have seen is the Army depot overhauled in the box units M38A1/M170 MWM had.

Wes the m38a1 box works just fine in the m38. I have one in my m38 with no issues what so ever.

Post by **wesk** » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:24 pm

The ratio is still too quick for the M38 with the spring shackles opposite the A1. You just haven't reached that zone with yours yet.

Bill_F · Post by **Bill_F** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:09 am

I drive the wheels off mine, no problem at all. I sat with John at MWM as he rebuilt the box for me, and he even has stated the m38a1 box is perfectly fine in the m38. I also have a friend (user name chuck on this forum) who runs an a1 box in his m38.

chuck · Post by **chuck** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:08 am

Wes ,why do you say that the ratio is too quick? The bigger the numbers means that the box is slower. I had this discussion with you back about 4 years ago when I built my M38 and you came to your same conclusion .I rebuilt my own box and know it is an A2 box. Since then I have driven over 3000mi very comfortably and have not killed myself as you told me I would. Your statement could cause a restorer to go out and spend money needlessly. I respect your expertise on most other matters but I have to stand my ground on this one along with Bill F.
Respectfully
Chuck

Post by **wesk** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:20 am

My BAD. You are correct Chuck. I got the two backwards again. It is the M38 box in the M38A1 that becomes a problem! Thanks for the help.

chuck · Post by **chuck** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:29 am

You are welcome. The purpose of this forum is to help and learn from each other.
Chuck

Post by **wesk** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:34 am

That's why Ryan and I launched this web site years ago.