Cross shaft carrier bushings

Bretto · Post by **Bretto** » Sun May 08, 2011 7:22 am

Does anyone know who might carry replacement bushing for the carrier that bolts to the frame that supports the clutch/brake shaft?
Thanks,
Brett

Post by **wesk** » Sun May 08, 2011 9:02 am

I don't think any of the MV dealers sell the bushings. Midwest has the assembly listed in their M38 parts list for $30 but show $40 next to the illustration.

Clutch & Brake Pedal Shaft Bracket & Bearing - WO 801662 $30.00

A495 Pedal Shaft - $32.00
Bracket with Bearing - $40.00
Rod Link - $8.00
Cable & Yoke - $23.00
Cable Boot - $17.50
Cable Boot Adapter - $25.00
Z-Tube - $29.00
Z-Tube Seal Kit - $9.00
Ball Stud - $2.75 each

Even at $40 it's a better deal then the time and labor plus bushing cost to obtain generic bushing stock and cut, fit and ream.

RimfireJim · Post by **RimfireJim** » Thu May 12, 2011 8:17 pm

This part seems to be semi-missing in the 1955 ORD 9. I believe it is item FF in Figure 02-2 on page 50, listed as "BEARING" 7372840 on p. 51, but isn't listed anywhere in the following pages. Just one more error or omission I've found in the ORD 9. Is the WO 801662 P/N listed by MWM correct? Another vendor has it listed as 801663, and yet another has it as 801664!

On a related note, regarding the "Lever, control, w/tube" (what MWM calls a "Z tube"), is that just a steel-on-steel joint at each end where it pivots on the studs? Are they supposed to be packed with grease during assembly and just hope for the best regarding wear? When we stripped ours down, the seals were long gone, it was bone dry (of course), the studs were obviously worn (of course), but I'm having trouble figuring out how much wear there is to the lever (not having unworn studs to test fit with). What should the inside diameter be where the stud ball runs? It sure would be nice not to have to replace at least one part on this project

Bretto · Post by **Bretto** » Thu May 12, 2011 9:11 pm

[quote=It sure would be nice not to have to replace at least one part on this project

[/quote]
No kidding!
Regarding the cross shaft or z-tube, I have a new one in my hands and the ID is 5/8 and the OD is 7/8. I also measured the new ball studs at 5/8.
I have to say that I've never been thrilled with the design of brake/clutch linkage, doesn't make sense to have it tied into the tcase. I'm sure I'll take heat for giving a thumbs down to a 60year old design.
Through negligence and age, mine were shot and bone dry also and the stud on the tcase was half gone.

Post by **wesk** » Thu May 12, 2011 9:45 pm

I found it odd that MWM show 3 A177 retainers and the ORD 9 only shows 2.

Note that some items are for the late style fording equipped M38 starting with engine serial MC74419.

I would guess about 0.004 max slop between ball and tube.

skyjeep50 · Post by **skyjeep50** » Fri May 13, 2011 8:34 am

I just took my M38A1's "Z" tube out as well to clean and re-grease. The tube was worn were the ball studs sat and the clutch rod to lever hole was elongated. Steel on steel joints, open to the elements and in a dirty location - no wonder there is wear. There isn't any way to service or lube these parts without dissassembly. Just another feature of a 60+ year old design that included many such high wear parts. I don't think the military was overly concerned with the maintenance issues, they had the mechanics to take care of the vehicles and a parts supply program to keep everything rolling. The design's simplicity, serviceability and lower initial cost were probably more important considerations. I scratch my head sometimes at what we may consider design flaws but then I remember that these vehicles were primarily made to be tactical transport in battle zones and might come under fire (as well as the soldiers they carried). Over-engineering for a long operating lifespan was not what they needed. And every time I drive my jeeps I say a big Thank-You to all the military personnel who operated them!

Bretto · Post by **Bretto** » Fri May 13, 2011 10:43 am

Thanks skyjeep. You are right on.
Regarding the root of my post, I have just ordered some bushing at $1.75 each. I'll let you guys know how it goes once I rx them and install. In fact I have ordered 3. One extra to see if I can do something with the brake arm that is sloppy.

madmike · Post by **madmike** » Fri May 13, 2011 11:49 am

This subject came up just as I have removed my cross shaft and noticed the rust and lack of grease in this area and no way to service lube it. Yesterday, when removing the cable connection from the bell housing, I noticed a dark and now brittle substance around the threads. Since my Jeep was equipped with the underwater kit, I would like to know if the compound is anything but a thread sealer. If it was a thread locker then I/we should be aware of that also.

skyjeep50 · Post by **skyjeep50** » Fri May 13, 2011 3:48 pm

Probably thread sealant. Not really needed unless you are going swimming with the jeep.

RimfireJim · Post by **RimfireJim** » Fri May 13, 2011 4:26 pm

Thanks for the info, guys. I'll check the lever tube and see how worn (out?) it is. 0.004" diametral clearance sound about right - somewhere around what I would design it at.

Wes: just curious - where were you able to get some of those numbers, since they aren't shown in the 1955 ORD 9? Earlier ORD 9? Or do you have your secret sources?

Also, you have two different parts labeled A887. The black rings look like they are labeled correct, as the seal has to fit over the stud. I think the white disks you have labeled "Seal, Dust A887" are supposed to be "RETAINER, control tube spring, A177".

G740/MWM, if you're reading this: it would be nice if you used the same descriptions as those in the ORD 9, and also listed what all is included in the "Z-tube Seal Kit". 2 each of Spring, Seal, Retainer, and Washer?

Re. the design and metal-on-metal pivots: I believe this is the only moderate-to-high load joint like this on the M38. All the others either have a Zerk fitting or are light loads (e.g. throttle linkage). It's like the design engineer for this system missed it. I'm wondering if it would be practical to add a Zerk at each end of the tube (heresy - not original!!

) to make it lubricatable (that's a word now - I just made it up). An 1/8" wall on the tube is enough meat to take a 1/4"-28 thread. Seems like that would sure beat having to disassemble the whole works to get some grease in there. Thoughts?

Post by **wesk** » Fri May 13, 2011 10:46 pm

Good catch Jim. I corrected the photo.

All those numbers came from My 1955 ORD 9. Don't forget some are listed on the clutch page and some on the brake page.

Weld a small bushing to the outside lower surface of the tube at each end about at the middle of the ball. Then drill the correct size hole and tap the bushing.

Bretto · Post by **Bretto** » Mon May 16, 2011 9:37 pm

I got the bushings today. Knocked out the old and pressed in the new ones. I got three shipped to my door for right about $10 total. I just need to ream them out and should be good to go.

Post by **wesk** » Mon May 16, 2011 10:46 pm

You purchased them from ???

Bretto · Post by **Bretto** » Tue May 17, 2011 6:59 am

That might be helpful right? Sorry

They are longer than the ones that were in there so I figured it will give more support.
http://www.smallparts.com/s/ref=sp_sear ... &x=44&y=10

Post by **wesk** » Tue May 17, 2011 9:01 am

Thankd Brett for the info and the nice set of photos.