Where do I start?

SledDog · Post by **SledDog** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:27 pm

Incredible amount of information here! Thanks to all who have put this site together and contributed!

However, man am I confused. I consider this normal now that I have an M38! I sent my survey info off to Wes, read through just about everything I can on this site, bought the essential manuals (still need more), started breaking the Jeep down to see what I really have, researched and researched some more.

The real question is where do I start? I want to restore this to original as much as possible. I'm not sure if the engine runs now, the last time it did was around 1982. I have have hand cranked it and it went smooth (was not seized) but no compression test yet. It still had clean oil in it after all these years. The diffs (RandP) look fine although the outer steering/brakes could use some work. The body/tub is in decent shape although it has several areas than need some work...mainly the front floor panels under the fuel tank and under the toolbox.

The frame is rusted but mainly surface rust. Hat channels and cross members are ok but some will need to be replaced. The body is still on the frame.

So, should I just tear down everything and work on the frame, body, axles, drive train and engine separately? Should I get the motor running first? I've ordered fuel lines, brake lines and various other components that obviously need replacing. I've been cleaning minor stuff (electrical, data plates, filters, hoses, clamps etc.).

Anybody near Phoenix that would like to take a look?

Thanks!

DJ · Post by DJ » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:00 pm

I would do the brakes first ,a runaway
jeep can be hard to stop.

rdsar2k · Post by **rdsar2k** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:09 pm

I would take the body off. easier to clean and check everything. you can run the engine in the chassis; just hook up the grill with radiator and pit a rubber hose in a gas can. Not really that hard plus you can work on the body easier.

Post by **wesk** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:07 am

It always help to drive the jeep before you tear her down. That way you can itemize what you find needing repair or corrections. Then when satisfied you have recorded all the malfunctions you can find while driving the jeep then do the compression and leak down checks on the engine. Record all findings in your resto log. It is a good time to get your hands on a cooling system pressure tester and check out the engine and radiator for leaks and the cap for pressure. Write down everything. Simple things like pulls to the left when driving. Or pulls to the right when braking. Sit's low on right aft corner. You can even divide your resto log into sections. Discrepency list, parts list, labor time invested, order log, Serial number log, want list and so on. The more you learn and document at the beginning the easier the road will be to driving her again. And don't forget the photo album.

oilleaker1 · Post by **oilleaker1** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:25 am

I saw your pictures and it looked quite intact. If you are going to run the engine, oil will settle out the solids (sludge) over time and look brand new on the stick. I'd drop the oil pan and clean it. You should kit the carb and fuel pump. Also remove the pickup screen and clean it. Prime the oil pump and gallery before you try and start it. Brakes will need the whole thing done, master,and wheel cylinders and hoses. You may have some plugged tubing also. If it was full to the top with clean antifreeze, your water pump might be OK. Watch it for leaks at the opening on the bottom behind the pulley. You should check all the wheel bearings and re-pack them. Front knuckles will need cleaning , seals, and most likely the upper and lower bearings and races. Most likely a bellcrank kit. Do yourself a favor and don't buy any MD Juan made sheetmetal if you can. Midwest Military sells the best floor repair and hat channels. You have to remove the tub to cut out the bad and replace. Pre-fit the tub, fenders, hood and grille BEFORE welding solid. You can use self tapping screws to hold things where you think they need to be. Lining up all the holes at once with the frame locations is a little tricky. When the hood fits evenly with the tops of the fenders assembled, you are very close to home again. I try and buy original stuff first cause it works. Repo stuff is sometimes a waste of your money and time. Some items ARE well made though. It's like building a house, a good set of footings and basement carries up for the rest. Study all the pictures in the original TM's and Ryan Millers book. Those pictures are priceless. Then when you are really stuck, Wes will dig up the info. that enables you to get through it. I need to buy him breakfast sometime!

John

skyjeep50 · Post by **skyjeep50** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:50 am

Ditto and ditto. Wesk and oilleaker1 are right on. When starting my two recent projects I thought of safety first - what will make this safe to run on the roads. Once you have checked out the engine and it seems to be operating Ok the next priority is in examining brakes, steering, suspension. Then what needs to be cleaned. Drain and replace fluids, clean off all the old grease and dirt from the body so you can SEE the jeep, as mentioned repack all bearings, knuckles, driveshafts, axles. Electrical system checks - I'm discovering that 60 year old wire insulation and connectors are extremely brittle and likely to turn to dust if moved. For me, bodywork and paint is the last item on the checklist. But I'm not trying to rebuild to factory or show standards, just want to drive the Jeeps! Good luck with your project!

idiocrates · Post by **idiocrates** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:55 am

I think the correct question is not where to start....but where to stop. I had a couple of small steering issues with my m38a-1 and a badly rusted tub....so I figured I'd rework those two minor issues and be back on the road again in a very short time. That was....oh,,let's see.....like four years ago! Reworking the steering led to the removal and overhaul of my front axle.....which led to the overhaul of my front springs....which after inspecting the frame around the shackle mounts led me to consider a thoroush frame overhaul since I was fixin to remove the tub anyway. Once the tub was off....the radiator went off to a radiator shop....the engine went off to a machine shop.....I rebuilt the transmission and transfer case......overhauled the rear axle......put new u joints on both propeller shafts....did a complete brake job from master cylinder to shoes including plumbing.....replaced the bubbatized exhaust system....and am just now plowing through the tub repair. In other words.....one thing just seemed to lead to another and before I knew it....I had an erector set and not so much a jeep. Gotta admit though....were I prone to a life of larceny....this restoration thing is definitely good at keepin me busy and out of trouble.

Post by **wesk** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:57 am

I tried to keep my post simple. The driving I referred to is not using the jeep as a daily driver for several months. I referred to driving the jeep one time enough to determine what doesn't feel right and record it. Your post indicates you are going for a full immediate teardown so I would not invest a couple of weeks of repairs just to test drive the jeep. A very simple once around to make sure it won't fall apart under you at 30 or 40 MPH and a few simple under the hood checks before you start. If you want to a quick jack up of each end to spin the wheels and listen for bad noises, shake check the steering and front spindles, make sure you have enough brake to stop her from 40 MPH, check the engine fluids, and fire her up.

The place to do this type of test drive is not down town or on the freeway. Private property, large empty parking lots on Sunday morning , rural dirt roads are good examples.

SledDog · Post by **SledDog** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:35 am

Thanks for all the advice! Much appreciated.

Although I like the idea of test driving it first, I'm not so sure I feel comfortable with that. The brakes are seized and the lines are pinched in a few places. I'm not sure if the Master Cyl is working or the wheel Cyl's. The clutch is also seized and the wiring is questionable.

Steering seems to be fine.

I can run through the gears on the tranny and tansfer but I have no idea if they actually function while moving.

Again, I plan on going through every part of the vehicle wheels on up so I'm hoping that being thorough will eliminate any driveability issues when its ready.

Having said that, It sounds like I should change all fluids and get the engine fired first, see what needs to be replaced or re-built such as carb, starter, generator, radiator, water pump, dist., etc.

Then remove the body and set it aside. Pull the drivetrain, work on tranny and transfer. Then pull the axles and work on them.

Work on the frame before the body, then reassemble frame and drivetrain with new wiring, brake lines, fuel lines etc. Final work to be done on the body and then reassemble.

Does this make sense? I should be done in a week right? (lol).

RICKG · Post by **RICKG** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:14 pm

SledDog wrote:.

I should be done in a week right? (lol).

What's takin you so long??

Post by **wesk** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:51 pm

Leave the engine, carb, clutch and fuel pump tear down and rebuild for last. The horror stories of engines completed in the first year of a 5 to 10 year restoration that refuse to start or run 5 to 10 years later and the money and time spent correcting the long term storage issues that caused those problems are all over the web sites.

oilleaker1 · Post by **oilleaker1** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:23 pm

Chronological common sense is what we are trying to say here. If the engine runs fine and is full of oil, it will store well inside a heated garage for years. Wes says that a short drive to see what's bad is fine as long as you don't wreck stuff that could have been saved by taking a few safety measures to guard against simple damage due to no fluids etc. If it hasn't been run for years, you really need to take it apart and check it out. My engine that was " overhauled" had a broken piston, broken valve spring, 4 F head valves in a L head engine, wrong size bell housing and starter bolts, etc. and etc.. Probably would have either not run or blown up. You see so many adds that it ran when parked, or drove into the barn. If you want a nice driveable rig, that you will enjoy and feel good in, check out everything. Some things will be fine , others will amaze you that they drove the thing. A new wiring harness will save your old generator, regulator from shorts or a bad experience with hot wires and ruined items that now will cost you. It is worth it in the end. They are such a pleasure to play with. My engine , by the way, was still all standard, and was a easy fix. Glad I didn't pull it behind the pickup----Yep. I'm sure more will give you advice. Advice is cheap they say. I think from what I've read, you are a careful sort and will digest the info., and do it right anyway. Haul it up to the Black hills when you're done and I'll race you in low four wheel drive!

John

53a1 · Post by **53a1** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:27 pm

My build and others are chronicled here. For what it's worth at least it will give you the general order of the rebuild process. Here are two I know of first hand.

Be sure you have all your tools ready and a place to work. You don't need a huge area to do a full resto. I did mine in a two car garage with a tailer port on the side. Have a sand blasting buisness lined up and purcahse a smaller unit for your own use.

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... highlight=

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... highlight=

SledDog · Post by **SledDog** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:05 pm

Thanks again everyone! I have a feeling I'm going to be saying that a lot here!

I should have perhaps introduced myself a bit better. I am by no means a mechanic or an expert on vehicles but I have built a few jeeps in the past, albeit completely different from what I wish to accomplish here. My past Jeeps were, dare I say it, rock crawlers.

Having said that, restoration is completely new to me so I really do appreciate the knowledge, experience and expertise you guys provide!!!

In my previous builds I never bothered to document everything, it wasn't necessary. I realized once I got this M38 delivered things were going to be a bit different to say the least. I've taken over 200 pics so far and I haven't really done anything yet

On building a rock crawler, I know exactly where to start. On Resto...Had no clue but now I do.

Thanks again...now for an easy question... How do I start a photo album on this site?

Post by **wesk** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:46 pm

Here's the link to your album:

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... _album.php