Information about Greek M38

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:34 pm

Hello everybody,

a few weeks ago I bought a Willys M38. I´m really happy with it, but I want to know more about my vehicle.

The only thing I know is that it was imported to Germany from Greece in 1996 and it was already black.

The motor mounted is a French one (ser. no.: U 54 / casting no.:8010I HWOF FMA) I don´t know if this can give any informatio.
The spare motor I got with the Jeep (I think it is the original one) Has the serial no.: RMC 30522

Wes told me to add some special pictures that the specialists around can say more about my Jeep.
Here they are: http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... _album.php

I´m interested in everything that can be said about my Jeep!

Especially a possible date of construction (the German papers say 1.07.1947 but this can´t be right!), wether the body is original or not, what parts are not original, are important parts missing for original optic and so on...

Thanks a lot in advance!!!

Many greetings from Southern Germany,

Roy

RimfireJim · Post by **RimfireJim** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:54 am

Nice looking Jeep, Roy.

The RMC engine would not be an original - the "R" means a replacement made by Willys for the Army, so it would be a motor pool replacement. Not original, but better than a civilian version with regard to military authenticity, IMHO. (Mine has an RMC engine.)

I'm no specialist, but this is what I noted from your pictures:

Engine compartment:
- voltage regulator is not the original style
- you're missing the original air intake system with oil bath air cleaner and crossover tube, and probably the original carburetor judging from the air filter on there now

Chassis:
- frame, from what I can see in the photos, looks correct for M38, with boxed in front sections and correct rear crossmember
- front bumper is missing some holes near the ends
- muffler and tailpipe position is not correct - muffler should angle from left to right and tailpipe come out right rear corner

Body:
- missing fuel filler guard and no holes to mount it
- missing small footman loop (and holes) at top center of radiator guard
- missing holes in cowl for windshield wiper vacuum hoses
- missing holes in right rear quarter for side spare tire mount
- missing holes in left rear quarter for trailer receptacle, ground and reflector
- missing rear side reflectors and it looks like the holes for them
- missing door pivot tubes on inside side panels just behind seats
- missing rear seat brackets and no holes or other signs of ever having them
- shift pattern plate is not M38, and missing other data plates and holes where they were mounted
- should have both a choke and hand throttle mounted in the dash to the right of the steering column, looks like you only have one of them
- instrument panel was originally mounted with slotted head Dzus (1/4 turn) fasteners, not hex head bolts
- all sheet metal looks very straight and like new, much different than the other Greece Jeeps I've seen pictures of on this forum. But notice how much rougher the top front corner of the fuel tank looks than the rest of the metal.

So, that makes me think that either someone put in a whole lot of time straightening the metal but for some odd reason eliminated original features, OR it is reproduction. I wouldn't be surprised if it is the latter, but I've never seen a reproduction in person to know for sure what to look for.

RICKG · Post by **RICKG** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:32 am

Sweet!! I gotta believe the floors and inner rear fenders have been
replaced-not a single ding!! Very nice!!

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:40 pm

Hey Jim, hey Rick,

thanks a lot for your compliments and the information!!!

@ Jim: some of the info I already knew, but many is new! Thanks! I also think that the body or at least parts of it are new. I think I will try to get back as many originality as necessary step by step.
But the most important thing is: the jeep is running and I have fun with it!

By the way, which type of motoroil do you use?
Do you have any info about a single cable/wire hanging around in the glove box?

Regards from Germany!

Roy

Post by **Ryan_Miller** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:23 am

Roy,

Your jeep looks good and if it runs good then you are ahead of the game. The Greek army replaced panels on some jeeps as we have heard from other members of the website. The work on your jeep seems to look pretty good.

On the other stuff mentioned above. I would have fun with that jeep and work on little things as time/money permitted, but keep it drivable.

It is your jeep and you should do what you enjoy with it.

RimfireJim · Post by **RimfireJim** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:11 pm

Roy wrote: But the most important thing is: the jeep is running and I have fun with it!

Most definitely, having fun with it is the most important thing, running or not. I'm actually having more fun with our project than I would if it was all done, but I'll admit I had fun with the jeep when I bought it many years ago as a young man, as rough as it was, just running around in the forests in western Washington state.

It will be easy for you to add some of the missing details to the body to make it look more "correct", should you want to, and that should not be very expensive. Whatever you do, have fun!

Post by **wesk** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:08 am

I see no wire near your glove box in your two photos of the glove box. Willys did not run any wires through the glove box.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:03 pm

Thanks a lot for all the information!

I will add a Pic of the wire in the glove box and check where it goes to...

skyjeep50 · Post by **skyjeep50** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:47 am

The jeep also has non-standard tail and front black-out (now marker) lights, does not have the body serial number plate or mount holes, does not have a spash shield for the regulator, does not have door hinge sockets on the door sill but the holes are there, electric wipers rather than vacuum (that may be where the electric wire in question goes to). The tub has some characteristics that were similar to the repop tubbed M38 I once had. But the repop did not have the snorkel cutout in the hood that this jeep has but I'm sure there are variations between repop tubs. My repop also did not have Dzus fasteners for the instrument panel - check to see if the Dzus sockets are mounted on the tub but bolts were used instead to fasten the panel.
I think the greatest difference between my more or less original M38A1 and M38 and this jeep is what is something that is glaringly missing - oil drips on the pavement underneath the jeep!

It's a keeper for sure!

Post by **wesk** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:07 pm

It could be an MD Juan tub or it could be a heavily repaired stock tub where the rebuilder used flat stock instead ready made panels with all the holes stamped in them.

The suspicious areas are the rear floor which is missing the indents for the CJ3A seat and the wheel houses missing the seat brackets. Also those add on verticle re-inforcement strips from the back top edge of the wheel house to the top rail of the tub. It would help to know if the JEEP script is on the front vertical surface of the passenger side tool box.

Look here for a serial number/

As you can see the current tub offering from MD Juan for the M38 is a lot more accurate then Roy's tub.

The 1960's thru 70's offering was a generic tub that fit CJ2A and CJ3A and M38 and you had to move all the brackets and boxes from your old tub to it.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:23 am

Thanks again for all the information!!!
I checked the body, but on the places mentioned above I found no numbers!
The only body number I found is on the firewall in front of the passenger seat seen from the motor and it is 9308-264.
Perhaps you have any information about this kind of number?
Thanks!

Post by **wesk** » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:08 am

Is that number stamped into the body's firewall or on a plate attached to the body?

9308- is a mid 60's serial number prefix for a Kaiser FW1C4 truck with a stake body.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:12 am

It is stamped into the firewall!
Under the black&white sticker you see on the friewall on picture 2 of my gallery...
I can´t find any information on google about the truck you mentioned-could this mean the whole body could be original Kaiser or how does the back of this body look?
Thanks!

Post by **wesk** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:36 am

The 9308 code went with a 60's version of this jeep Forward Control truck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Forward_Control

RimfireJim · Post by **RimfireJim** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:55 pm

wesk wrote: The 9308 code went with a 60's version of this jeep Forward Control truck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Forward_Control

Which has to be one of the coolest trucks ever made, IMHO, if you equate quirky distinctiveness with coolness. When you read about them, you're brain has a hard time connecting the image of what looks like a bigger truck with being based on a CJ-5, but when you see one in person, it all makes sense. And 4WD to boot. I've never ridden in one, but I'd bet they aren't all that comfortable on a rough road, sitting right over the front axle like that.

John Colwell has a lot of images of vintage FC literature on his site: http://www.vintagemilitarytrucks.com/FC ... 20Sale.htm

That would be quite a FrankenJeep to have an FC firewall in an M38