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Couple Brake Questions

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:26 pm
by Deadguy
I upgraded my stock 9" brakes for 11". Now, the metal brake tubing that screws into the backing plate, and forms a seal through pressure, no longer screws in far enough to form a seal. This is the piece I'm having problems with.
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One end screws into the backing plate for the drum brakes, the other end into one of the rubber hoses. I've been told I can just get a longer hose, one that has a male end on one side, and screw it directly into the backing plate. Any opinions?
I am upgrading my rear brakes as well, but I have been told this is not an issue with the rear brakes.

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:29 pm
by Deadguy
Also, the ends of the metal hoses have a grove. A clip clamps into the grove, and holds the hoses in place. Anyone know where I can find extras of this clip?

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:36 pm
by Deadguy
I found the clips, DL Bensinger had them.

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:58 pm
by cross
I have an M38 which a PO installed 11" brakes on and it has a longer hose which goes directly to backing plate. As to the brake clips I believe Rapco has them.

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:34 am
by artificer
You need to be aware that removing the s tube & replacing with a full rubber hose, if that is what you are suggesting, raises acouple of issues:
1. The steel s tube is there to alleviate the possibility of the hose catching 7 breaking while being used across country & in the scrub
2. The rubber hose needs to be routed or supported to stop it coming into contact with the tyre when steering the vehicle.

Hoses the length you need can be made @ any Parker Hannefin [or similar]dealer for <$20 with correct fittings & DOT appproved

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:44 am
by Deadguy
The original S tube mates withe the hose right at a support that rises up off the axle. It's essentially a square with a hole through the center that the hose passes through. If I run the hose through that hole, it will be fixed in place.

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:16 am
by wesk
The early steel S tube installation uses the straight in ported wheel cylinder. The steel S fastens to that port and the flex hose at the top support bracket on the knuckle. The outboard end of that hose is secured in that bracket with the "C" clip. This clip is a common brake hardware item I have been purchasing across the Carquest and NAPA counters.

The late brake installations 10" use a different Steel S tube. They do use a wheel cylinder with an angled port and a different hose support bracket since the hose goes upwards to the frame instead of downwards to the axle housing. This is because the 10 and 11" brake jeeps run the tube that connects the left front brake to the right front brake across the crossmember under the radiator instead of down on the axle housing.

The 11" brakes systems introduced in 1972 run a flex hose directly from the wheel cylinder to the frame bracket where the "C" clip is used to retain the hose and tube at that point on the frame.

So if you leave the transverse (left to right) brake tube on the axle housing you must insure that the flex hose remains protected in the original M38A1 tray/bracket. As long as the hose lies in the bracket/tray and is not exposed to damage from the axle travel bump stop you will be fine. As John mentioned above the important thing is to make sure the flex hose length you use is not too short or too long based on your jeep's axle flex/travel and steering travel and does not strike anything during those travels.

If you want to keep it as simple and correct as possible then you should adapt the entire 1972 front plumbing to your M38A1. This way you can use the off the shelf hoses for the 1972 to 78 CJ5 and fab a pair of "C" clip brackets for the frame rails above the axle in the same spot they go on the 72 CJ5.

See the stock vs 10" photos here:
http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... hp&page=23

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:27 pm
by Deadguy
I ordered 12" hoses. Are these the right length? Based off my measurements it would appear so, but if someone knows for certain, by all means!

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:02 pm
by wesk
Hose length can only be determined by you following the notes I posted above. It's your jeep and we have no idea what the exact travel distances are going be for vertical spring movement and lateral steering travel. This is where you must make a choice. Welcome to the not so "Black & White" world of vehicle modifications from stock.

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:51 pm
by rgmutchler
I have seen several restored CJ3B's that do not have the S line from the flex hose to the wheel cylinder. When asked the owners tell me the CJ3B did not ever use the S line. I don't know if that is correct or not or if the brake size on the CJ3B is the same as the M38. Consequently I have wondered if when I rebuild my M38 brakes if using a longer flex hose from a CJ3B would be advisable over the s line. (it's got to be easier remembering what a pain the s line was on other jeeps I had)
I have heard the comment made by Artificer about the s line being used to avoid catching on brush etc when used off road but wonder if it was a problem since they seem to have changed it on the CJ3B.
I'm not advocating anything, just asking based on what I have seen on the CJ3B's.