Frame painting question.

ECVJeeps · Post by **ECVJeeps** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:41 am

I need a color confirmation for my frame. The jeep will be a US Air Force M38 and will be painted back to its original color of Strata Blue. I have two sets of original yellow hood and body numbers that I can use for this jeep.
I know the original frame came from Midland in black. My question is, was the frame painted Strata Blue before the body was installed to match the body? Or were the frame, springs and axles all painted OD and left that color with only the rims painted to match the jeep?

Just trying to get this thing a bit closer to original as possible.

major519 · Post by **major519** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:07 am

I would suggest that this all depends on time period during service life. I know that this discussion has come up before.
I would think that original factory configuration would be chassis black. I am sure that over the course of a jeeps lifetime, the chassis may have received an overspray of whatever particular colour was used on the rest of the jeep.
I have heard of OD bodies being painted over at the factory to whichever branch of service ordered them. I have seen air force blue over OD as well as navy gray over OD.

Post by **wesk** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:13 am

There is a very small bit of evidence that the Willys factory was in fact providing some service specific painting near the very end of M38 production. The written documents released to data only address the Strata Blue painting of wheels and the Registration Yellow for USAF registration numbers. To this date the chassis are only known to have been black for all the jeeps and most likely overall OD on the line. There have been no official production change orders produced to date for an overall Strata Blue finish coating on M38 bodies.

Pat, You don't say weather you are working on an M38 or an M38CDN. If CDN then it would be best to get with the CDN guru's on the special Canadian Air Arm blue.

ECVJeeps · Post by **ECVJeeps** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:44 pm

Hi Wes
This is a hodge-podge jeep, the frame is CDN along with the data plates, however the body (minus the windshield frame and tailgate) are from a US jeep. The engine is also from the same US M38.
I don't have a US serial number so It will be registered as a CDN jeep and use the serial number from the data plates that I have.
I did save the numbers from both the hood and the arctic top that was on the jeep when I got it.

That is why I was going to paint it Strata Blue and use either one of the numbers for the jeep.

There were enough US M38's stationed here in Canada over the years at the various Pine Tree Line stations (one just down the road) that it would not be out of place painted Strata Blue.

I do plan on painting the frame black as a base coat and was just wondering if I should bother to paint it OD first or paint it Strata Blue.

Post by **wesk** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:28 pm

I went with black only on my 51 M38 USAF. I did that simply because I didn't want to have to look everyday at a USAF jeep with an Army OD frame. In your case I would do the same.

Tough choice ahead for you on registration numbers. Any idea when the arctic top was added? That info may help on picking a number to use.

ECVJeeps · Post by **ECVJeeps** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:53 pm

I like the idea of black only on the frame, thanks.
The top was on the jeep when I got it. I have no idea at all as to when it was added?

I still have a bit of time before I decide on a number for the jeep, still working at putting the frame together with all the running gear.
The body parts are almost all finished, only some body work to do on the tub and then paint and install.

Thanks for all the info.

evanso1975 · Post by **evanso1975** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:27 am

Just what I found on my M38:

My July '51 USAF M38 frame was painted strata blue, along with the rest of the jeep. This was done on top of the OD, and had a lot of layers of green applied after the blue (not OD, but British Army green, which would suggest the green being applied during it's civilian life). I too like the idea of having a black frame, but since I've now painted it blue I don't intend to change the color. So mine stays blue, at least for now.

chicklin · Post by **chicklin** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:19 pm

If you go with black, I would recommend using POR-15. No, it's not original, but you won't be able to tell and that stuff is bullet-proof.

Bill_F · Post by **Bill_F** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:29 pm

I went with Black on my USAF m38. Looks pretty good. I would also use the number you have on the hood not the door. However my frame does still have some of the old blue paint on it as well.

ECVJeeps · Post by **ECVJeeps** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:41 pm

Then black it is for my frame and running gear. The tub requires a bit more bodywork before I can start spraying the Strata Blue.

I expect that the blue on the frame would be over spray from when the jeep was repainted.

The Hood numbers are a good idea because I don't recognize the 52K number. However the "for official use only" looks kinda cool, but I don't know where I would paint that on the jeep? Possibly over the step?

Thanks for the help guys.

Post by **wesk** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:02 pm

the 52K number is the later version of the USAF registration numbers. The 52 is the year, the K is the vehicle class and that is followed by the registration number itself. These numbers would have been assigned to early 52 and older M38's that originally carried the old Army hood numbers.

Here you see a 1951 M38 with the later assigned 51K6331 USAF registration number on the arctic cab door.

Here you see the earlier application of the newer A-XXXX USAF registration number to an originally OD2430 M38 that has been repainted Strata Blue.

Here's an even earlier USAF adaptation of the original Army hood number on a repainted M38. You can still see the 2430 OD in the fenderwells.

I have a few photos elsewhere of MB's and early M38's both OD with just an F added to the U.S.A. on the hoods.

evanso1975 · Post by **evanso1975** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:07 pm

For those that are interested in the later markings, a copy of the TO 36-1-3 air force markings manual (August 1959 amendment) is available from Portrayal Press. I keep looking, but haven't found an earlier copy yet.

This old post might be helpful too:

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... pic&t=5591

The way I understand Wes's responses to that post, the year (52K, for example) refers to the contract year. So for my jeep (delivered under contract DA-20-089-ORD-4601FS) it would be 50K-#####, K being the code for general purpose vehicles. My 1959 copy of TO 36-1-3 appears to confirm this, as the illustrations have codes ranging from 42 (1942) to 57 (1957).

This is another representation of the earlier markings, taken in Germany in 1953 (sorry, only black & white). It's full size on page 9 of the historic photos gallery:

Only with a Willys Jeep can you feel as cool as the guy in the photo.

Note the M37 in the background still has the earlier number on the hood.

It's gonna come down to which markings you prefer the look of, so good luck whichever you choose....

Owen.

Bill_F · Post by **Bill_F** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:44 pm

does your manual say what the letters mean? I would love to know tht the N stands for in my hood number.

ECVJeeps · Post by **ECVJeeps** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:57 pm

For my jeep, the "N" is going to stand for Newman, my last name!

evanso1975 · Post by **evanso1975** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:28 pm

does your manual say what the letters mean? I would love to know tht the N stands for in my hood number.

In a word, no. This is what I've found on various web searches regarding the letter codes (sadly, no "N"):

B - Commercial, general purpose
C - Commercial, special purpose
D - Commercial, base maintenance
E - Materials handling equipment
K - Military, general purpose
L - Military, special purpose
M - Military, base maintenance
W - Vehicular type AGE
X - Non-reportable

Note that these are for the late fifties format YYU-#####, where:
YY = year
U = vehicle use (see above)
##### = serial number

Maybe someday someone will locate an early copy of the markings manual and identify what the "N" prefix actually means. There's one in Wes's post that has an "A" prefix. Again, I don't know what the "A" represents either. Maybe they could be motor pool or installation references?

Or maybe the air force made them up, just to confuse us jeep restorers.

Owen.