Water Droplets on Oil Level Gauge

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:43 pm

Today, before starting up my M38, I checked the oil level. As I did, I noticed water droplets and a foamy froth on the oil level gauge and cap assembly, and inside the crankcase fill pipe assembly. Also, from time to time, I see oil weeping out from under head gasket nut #2.

Also, lately as I have started up the engine, I note that soot spews out of the tailpipe. I looks wet, but is dry and sooty to the touch.

In reading in the TM9-8012 O & OM manual, I believe I have an internal head gasket leak. Looking back on the operation of the engine, this may another reason why I am losing small amounts of water from the cooling system during each drive.

Before I start the repair, can anyone confirm what I suspect...? Or could there be another cause for this problem...?

Any help you can give would be appreciated.

Reards;

Thomas
Charlotte, NC

Oldsalt · Post by **Oldsalt** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:01 pm

Before taking things apart you might want to check out your PCV system to be sure it is open and working. A lack of crank case ventilation can lead to moisture in the oil in a hurry. Does your M38 have the fording valves on the pcv system? Having them closed will do it. Of course if it is a lot of moisture or the oil in the pan is milky white then you may have a bigger problem.

Post by **wesk** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:30 pm

As mentioned above check the PCV valve and make sure both fording valves are in the normal driving position. Then get her good and warm with the radiator cap off and watch inside the radiator for any sign of bubbles. Then finally do a compression check. Then come back and tell us what you found.

artificer · Post by **artificer** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:09 pm

The symptoms you speak of could be normal & caused through lack of running. If you keep topping up the radiator you will always get an overflow when the coolant expands in a space it can't fit.
Suggest you give the vehicle a good long run, when cooled check the coolant level [do not top up].
Replace the cap & next time you go out let the system cool down remove the radiator cap & the cooland should still be @ the same level....no need to continually keep adding.
An easier way is when hot squeeze the radiator hose, if pressurized the hose will be tight to squeeze & there is no loss of fluid.
The soot is most likely indicative of running choked too long.
Sounds like this truck needs a really good long drive.

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:27 pm

Gentlemen;

Thanks for the help. Here is what I did and found the other day:

Pulled off and cleaned both crankcase control valves (fording valves). They were and are both fully open.
Pulled off and cleaned crankcase vent metering valve. Found a small amount of liquid on the intake manifold side of the metering orifice along with some crud.
Pulled off and cleaned all the crankcase vent lines.
Pulled, cleaned, and gaped all the spark plugs. Inspected the piston head through the plug opening. Saw a small amount of carbon, but no moisture.
Reset the idle speed and adjusted the carburetor idle adjusting screw, until the engine ran smooth in idle.
I did not do a compression check. I do not have the tools for that.

Warmed up the engine with the radiator cap off. I did not observe any bubbles. Also, I checked the oil level gauge and did not observe any water droplets or any oil froth. The oil in the engine looks normal in color and appearance. From what I could tell, the engine is running just fine. I measured my radiator temperature with my infrared temperature meter and I am running temps from 130 to 150 degrees F at various locations on the cooling system. My radiator was re-cored several years ago.

Today, I did run the engine again and it started fine. But, I still observed a small amount of wet soot spewing from the tail pipe. I warmed up the engine with the radiator cap off and again, no bubbles. Also the water level seemed to stay the same level while running.

I am going to get a new radiator cap this week, because I think I am loosing some water there when running with the cap on.

Any other ideas on my case...? Or am I over analyzing the problem I described at the beginning...? The wet soot on start up has me stumped.

Thanks for any help you can give.

Regards;

Thomas
Charlotte, NC

artificer · Post by **artificer** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:29 pm

You can & should have the radiator cap tested before replacing....there may be nothing wrong with it, so why spend the money.

An easier way is when hot squeeze the radiator hose, if pressurized the hose will be tight to squeeze & there is no loss of fluid.
The soot is most likely indicative of running choked too long.

Squeezing the radiator hose when @ temp will also tell you if the radiator cap is OK.
The wet soot is normal if the vehicle doesn't do long runs. A major by product of combustion is H2O [water]. This water will sit in mufflers & eventually rust them out unless you get everything hot enough to evaporate the water. That is why we are always preaching take your vehicles for a good spin.

Thomas · Post by **Thomas** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:53 pm

Oldsalt, Wes, John;

Thanks for the help on this one. I will test the radiator cap and keep an eye on the situation. If things change again, I will post for help.

Any time you are in Charlotte, look me up. We can go for a long spin.

Regards;

Thomas
Charlotte, NC