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i pulled an m38 out of the woods last year and i'm working on getting a title. the dash plates are still intact. the serial number for the jeep came up as just being titled in texas in 2011. i am on the east coast. and i know this jeep was in the ground still when it was titled in texas. im not sure what to do.. as i was trying to obtain an abandoned vehicle title.

It is possible that someone guessed at thier jeeps number and picked yours. apparently it has happened before.

so im guessing this means i cant use my serial number?

Each state is different, but MD likely has some sort of official 'inspector' at the DMV. See if you can talk with one of those guys, they may be more helpful than you expect. Also, one of them will likely need to 'inspect' your vehicle to confirm what the number really is. Have your poop in a group when you meet/speak with that guy. The easier you make it on him, the easier it will be for you.

Good luck:

Dave

Alternatively, if you have a buddy in the used vehicle business, reach out to him first, those guys usually know the ins, outs and pitfalls. He also likely has useful contacts.

Stand your ground and gets your ducks all lined up.

1-Do you have both the dash serial plate and the right wheelhouse patent plate?

2-Get a notarized statement from the seller on how long that jeep spent in the dirt and from whom he obtained the jeep.

3-Get a bill of sale from the seller.

4-Find out if the Texas jeep was titled on a data plate serial or the engine serial.

thanks! i have the dash plate and not the wheelhouse patent plate. the seller was a total wack job and ive avoided all contact with him since buying it. he is seriously not someone i want to talk to ever again. the texas title has the year as a 1951 when my data plate says 6/52. hopefully that bit will help me. i am afraid that this guy with the title will try and lay dibs on the jeep. even though it is completely taken apart now and across the country from him and ive invested some parts onto it already.

Are you saying a guy in Texas applied for and received a title in 2011 and does not now have and did not have in 2011 a M38 jeep in his possession for that title?

Or does he have an M38 with the same serial as yours and maybe he has a tub with the patent plate that has the same serial as your dash plate?

He cannot legally claim ownership to two like serialed jeeps on one title by the way.

The jeep i pulled out of the woods was complete except for the windshield. i guess it is possible that he somehow had the patent plate with the serial number and used it with another m38 he is in possession of.

Last time i went through this process i had to prove i had at least the patent plate in order to get a title.

Does this double serial number problem come up often?

i talked to the texas DMV they said the title was granted using a very old and original title from way back in the day. so im guessing the guy who has the title now just put that serial number on a m38 without a serial number. which would work in my favor if he did do a vin switch?

Yes it does. It is also more common in the MB's & GPWs where the frames had the same serial number stamped on them as the one on the dash. Thousands were rebuilt by military depots over the years 1942 thru 1955. A lot of tub swapping occurred. A good friend here in Wisconsin bought an MB with an out of state title from the southwest and the serial on the dash tag matched the title. When he applied for a Wisconsin title they picked up the same MBXXXXXX serial on a Wisconsin registered MB. They seized his title and launched an investigation. Turned out the other guy used an extra frame to restore his MB and used the frame serial since he had no plates. The frame number on my friends MB had been decimated by welding reinforcements years ago. So it was settled but my friend's jeep got a stat assigned VIN.

title was granted using a very old and original title from way back in the day

It is possible that title was originally for your jeep and your prior owner gained possession of your jeep without a title which happens with old beaters laying around where the family has no idea if or where there is a title for it.

I have even heard of folks renting or buying property with deserted vehicles on them and then selling these vehicles only to have the original title holder show up looking for his vehicle.

You are still on very shakey ownership ground.

This is why it is so important to ascertain positive details of ownership before we invest in a restoration. Title the project before we start the resto. Always get either a signed title with number matching the jeep or a bill of sale with that jeep's numbers on it. If we don't get a title we should always have DMV run the serial number before we buy. Anytime we look at a jeep with only one serial plate that means the other plate is somewhere and could be on another jeep title.

Assuming you have a bill of sale from the "wack job" seller
is the SN in question printed on that bill of sale? If not
then perhaps you could ditch the data plate and SN and
run with the MCXXXX on the engine boss above the WP??
Just a thought..

Careful with the engine serials. Up until spring of 52 M38 engines had MCXXXXX five digit serials and for each of them you can find out there a matching M38 body serial number. Although the engine serials were not matched to M38 body serials by Willys they still can appear on two different titles. IE in FEB 1952 the engine serial MC74420 was produced. The last M38 in JUL 1952 was MC72329. This means as of FEB 52 there was an MC engine out there with a serial number to match every MC body serial.

Top this off with the fact many DMV's originally titled vehicles up thru the 1960's/70's with their engine serials it is very easy for you to try to use an engine serial and get into the same problem. You may run into that wall when you title your jeep with your engine serial or a few later someone may finally title his restoration with it's original body tag serial which just happens to match the engine serial you used.

i'm having some legal people look into it. Wish i could contact the guy with the title.

Every state IS different but if you were in Michigan and were not stuck on having a original year and vin.....Assembled vehicle would be the way to go. Here you supply the DMV with receipts for what you used to build it, they give you forms to have it inspected for minimum safety requirements, and be sure you did not steel the parts to build it, they issue a new vin and collect the fees and you get a title with the new vin and current year as the vehicle build date......Either way you go when dealing with the DMV it will not make sense to a normal person. I once had a old truck I applied for a lost title on, Michigan DMV could find "no record" of the vin that was on the truck. She kept thinking I gave them the wrong number so I had to have the local police came out to "verify" the vin....that was it...just read the vin, then they let me fill in any year make and model I wanted, since they had NOTHING on file.....now my truck "exists" because they have a file for it GOOD LUCK

wesk wrote: Top this off with the fact many DMV's originally titled vehicles up thru the 1960's/70's with their engine serials it is very easy for you to try to use an engine serial and get into the same problem. You may run into that wall when you title your jeep with your engine serial or a few later someone may finally title his restoration with it's original body tag serial which just happens to match the engine serial you used.

My M38 is titled with the RMCnnnnn replacement engine number that was in it when I bought it in Washington in the late '70s. Shortly after, I moved to Idaho and had to have a state patrolman come out and look for the number when I was trying to register it. (I didn't have any idea where the number was, nor did I know of the possible existence of a serial plate.) He found the number on the engine and was satisfied. Later I moved to California and registered it here without any problem or question by the DMV. When my son started our restoration project, he found the original serial plate on the tub fender, painted over with numerous layers of paint. Now that we have the true number for the vehicle I'd like to get the title changed. Any suggestions on the best way to go about doing this? (Bearing in mind that the Calif. DMV has the reputation for being the most bureaucratic agency in existence, worse than even the IRS.)[/b]