Axe

Bretto · Post by **Bretto** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:45 am

My new addition.
Homebrew brackets and strap. Axe head located online then I hung it on a new handle. I love the curves

whydahdvr · Post by **whydahdvr** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:17 am

So did you just bend the metal to fit the shape or add to the threaded legs? I'm in a similar situation where I need to add a few inches to my axe handle bracket so that it fits inside instead of being tied onto it.

Bretto · Post by **Bretto** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:02 am

whydahdvr wrote:So did you just bend the metal to fit the shape or add to the threaded legs?

I made the whole thing. Got 2 extra long 5/16" carriage bolts. Cut the heads off, bent them to shape then joined them in the center with a weld. When I bent them, I made a relief cut about 1/2 way thru the stock where the bend would go so I could control where it bent then I just welded the cut back in.

whydahdvr wrote:I need to add a few inches to my axe handle bracket so that it fits inside instead of being tied onto it.

Not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying your threaded portion doesnt reach to the holes in the tub?

whydahdvr · Post by **whydahdvr** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:45 am

Cactus Ken did this a while back - added length to the threaded portion of the bracket. The issue is that when the bracket is attached to the body it doesn't stick out far enough for the axe handle to slide into. That may be due to the axe being a straight handle and if I remember right the M38 axes had a bend in the handle. Anyway, right now I've got the axe handle tied onto the bracket. It works, just not the way it's meant to. But then, I've got my jeep set up as a field expedient use jeep rather than showroom queen.

RICKG · Post by **RICKG** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:54 am

Josh, wouldnt a bend in the handle such as you describe
make the tool impossible to swing accurately? Just a thought..
I'll clarify that i've never seen or swung a correct orig M-38 axe.

Bretto · Post by **Bretto** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:49 pm

Let it be know that I initially made the bracket from dimensions provided to me by RickG's bracket which I'm sure was from a stock bracket. Rick? When I went to put the axe in, right away I knew the bracket was too short. I did lengthen it as you are saying.

whydahdvr · Post by **whydahdvr** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:52 pm

Correct on both. A bent axe handle will make it damned awkward to use effectively. The stock axe bracket's I've received from several of the vendors are all too short. Logically it should have longer threaded lengths/legs. But then we're dealing with a government contract so.......
I defer, as always, to Ryan and Wes.

chuck · Post by **chuck** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:16 pm

I had the same problem with aftermarket way back when I did my M38. I wound up making one at least an inch and a half longer.
Chuck

Post by **wesk** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:11 pm

I can tell you the Army never bought a axe to hang on an M38 that was bent so you could swing it around corners.

whydahdvr · Post by **whydahdvr** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:19 am

Just like the new rifle that was designed to shoot around corners but is now being rejected due to faults and ejection issues?

I do wonder why so many axes and axe handle brackets have the same issue today - the legs of the bracket not being long enough to go over the handle. Is it that the axe handles at that much thicker/different than 60 years ago or are the brackets not being made the correct length?

DJ · Post by DJ » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:39 am

From what I've seen on the old vs new axe heads is the thickness of the heads. The old axe heads are much thinner than the new ones. Might be something with the quality of the steel needing to be thicker. I got an old axe from my dad,and the head is much thinner than a new one. With the thinner head the axe would not be so snug and would allow the handle to lay closer to the tub.

Bretto · Post by **Bretto** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:44 am

My axe head is not new though and matches the spec listed on the G. And my new handle is no thicker than the axe head.
http://jeepdraw.com/John_Barton2-AXES.html
I can't say if those spec went along over to the M38 though.

Post by **wesk** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:20 pm

John Barton's pieces were done on the WWII Era pioneer tools.

This is a small post Kevin Emdee put up on the G several years ago:

Pioneer Tools

If there is anyone in the Detroit area who is looking for a correct shovel for the M38A1, I have found a local hardware store that stocks True Temper shovels of exactly the right length to fit in the brackets.

E-mail me off forum for address.

Shovel is a True Temper Bantam BRT-SD if anyone else wants to search for one.

For all: About three years ago, I began to offer the pioneer tools. I took the sizes for the tools from the tool lists published for the various M-series vehicles. The axe, mattock and mattock tools were straight forward. The shovel took further digging. I contacted the military sales rep for True Temper tools. He told me that the gov't specs allowed a variation in the length of the shovel. The overall length could run 34 3/4" to 36 1/4". This explains the variation in length of the shovel's shown in TB ORD 2300-2-/4, dated 18 August, 1958. It is titled "Stowage Locations For Pioneer Tools And Brackets". It has photo's showing where the pioneer tools and brackets are located on all of the Army's wheeled vehicles, starting with the M-38. There are three different kinds of shovels shown throughout the TB. The shovel lengths shown show handles protruding just over the end of the bracket and others fitting inside the frame. The shovel for the M-38 is different, than the shovels for all the other M-series vehicles. Because the M-38 body is virtually the same shape as the MB/GPW, it has to bend around the edged protrusion of the body tub in order that the shovel blade and the shovel handle lie flush against the body. This is achieved by a sharp bend or arc of the metal neck of the shovel. This sharp bend was eliminated as no other vehicle required that shape. The other shovels are more flat and were easier to make as the wood handle did not have to be shaped to match the curve of the blade neck. If you put a regular shovel on an M-38, then your handle will stick out about three inches from the body. It looks ok and most people will not notice it.

Given all that, here are the specs for the tools:

AXE: Single bit, 4 lb head weight, 4.750 inch cutting head, 31.00 inch handle length, Federal Spec GGG-A-926, type 1, class 1, design A.

MATTOCK: Pick type; without handle, 5 lb head, Federal Spec GGG-H-506, TypeII, Class F.

MATTOCK Handle, Hickory, 36.00 inch length, Federal Spec NN-H-93, type 5, Class 1, Grade B.

SHOVEL, Hand, Round point, open back construction, 12.500 inch blade length, 10.250 blade width, DF-style handle, Federal Spec GGG-S-326, Type 4, Class A, Style 1, Size 2.

In reference to painting, the tools came from the factory in civilian colors. The wood was natural and unpainted, axe heads were red, the shovels usually had a natural steel color blade with the D-handle grips being red. It was usually at the unit level, that commanders would dictate painting them to match the vehicle. Kevin.
_________________
Kevin B. Emdee
Star Electric Ordnance (M-series electric parts)
368 Big Oak Trail
Radcliff, KY 40160
1-270-877-0813 (Fax-5042)
Kevin.Emdee@comcast.net
MVPA #530

WC-56/M-274/M35A2/M-543A2/M-125

RICKG · Post by **RICKG** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:53 am

Bretto wrote:Let it be know that I initially made the bracket from dimensions provided to me by RickG's bracket which I'm sure was from a stock bracket. Rick? When I went to put the axe in, right away I knew the bracket was too short. I did lengthen it as you are saying.

Curiosity had me lay a thin straight-edge in the axe handle channel
and aligned to the bracket. The edge of the 1/8" thk straight edge
touches the inside surface of the outermost part of the bracket.
So unless i can find a handle 1/8" thick or less-well you know..
Methinks someone took a measurement to the wrong side of the
handle to fab the repops.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:18 pm

So do we have new correct dimensions for the axe bracket?