Axe sheath location

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:08 pm

I just recieved a new axe sheath for my m38. My tub did not have one on it. This piece is a weld on piece? CAn someone give me the dimensions of the sheath as far as where it needs to be welded on?

Cacti_Ken · Post by **Cacti_Ken** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:48 am

Here are the measurements I took from my tub on the axe sheath.
Hope it helps and isn't too late.

Ken

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:23 am

Thanks, thats what I was looking for. The bottom two holes on my tub for the bottom axe bracket are crooked? I guess not everything cranked out of the willys factory was perfect

Cacti_Ken · Post by **Cacti_Ken** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:48 pm

Ryan, notice that the sheath is crooked on my tub.

Are there any weld marks on your tub where the sheath was?

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:11 pm

no there were none that I could see. Whoever took it off smoothed it off real good. There was also some some sort of metal filler filling the holes for the lower axe bracket. Those are the holes that are crooked.

Post by **wesk** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:58 am

Ryan,
I would mount the canvas tie straps, shovel and axe temporarily to make sure of the spot I want the sheath at before doing any welding.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:05 am

Yea I was wondering about that. Do I need to get a special axe and shovel or can I use on from the hardware store?

Post by **wesk** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:22 am

There are correct tools and other tools that will fit. Kevin Emdee posted this article a while back on the tools:

Pioneer Tools

If there is anyone in the Detroit area who is looking for a correct shovel for the M38A1, I have found a local hardware store that stocks True Temper shovels of exactly the right length to fit in the brackets.

E-mail me off forum for address.

Shovel is a True Temper Bantam BRT-SD if anyone else wants to search for one.

For all: About three years ago, I began to offer the pioneer tools. I took the sizes for the tools from the tool lists published for the various M-series vehicles. The axe, mattock and mattock tools were straight forward. The shovel took further digging. I contacted the military sales rep for True Temper tools. He told me that the gov't specs allowed a variation in the length of the shovel. The overall length could run 34 3/4" to 36 1/4". This explains the variation in length of the shovel's shown in TB ORD 2300-2-/4, dated 18 August, 1958. It is titled "Stowage Locations For Pioneer Tools And Brackets". It has photo's showing where the pioneer tools and brackets are located on all of the Army's wheeled vehicles, starting with the M-38. There are three different kinds of shovels shown throughout the TB. The shovel lengths shown show handles protruding just over the end of the bracket and others fitting inside the frame. The shovel for the M-38 is different, than the shovels for all the other M-series vehicles. Because the M-38 body is virtually the same shape as the MB/GPW, it has to bend around the edged protrusion of the body tub in order that the shovel blade and the shovel handle lie flush against the body. This is achieved by a sharp bend or arc of the metal neck of the shovel. This sharp bend was eliminated as no other vehicle required that shape. The other shovels are more flat and were easier to make as the wood handle did not have to be shaped to match the curve of the blade neck. If you put a regular shovel on an M-38, then your handle will stick out about three inches from the body. It looks ok and most people will not notice it.

Given all that, here are the specs for the tools:

AXE: Single bit, 4 lb head weight, 4.750 inch cutting head, 31.00 inch handle length, Federal Spec GGG-A-926, type 1, class 1, design A.

MATTOCK: Pick type; without handle, 5 lb head, Federal Spec GGG-H-506, TypeII, Class F.

MATTOCK Handle, Hickory, 36.00 inch length, Federal Spec NN-H-93, type 5, Class 1, Grade B.

SHOVEL, Hand, Round point, open back construction, 12.500 inch blade length, 10.250 blade width, DF-style handle, Federal Spec GGG-S-326, Type 4, Class A, Style 1, Size 2.

In reference to painting, the tools came from the factory in civilian colors. The wood was natural and unpainted, axe heads were red, the shovels usually had a natural steel color blade with the D-handle grips being red. It was usually at the unit level, that commanders would dictate painting them to match the vehicle. Kevin.
_________________
Kevin B. Emdee
Star Electric Ordnance (M-series electric parts)
368 Big Oak Trail
Radcliff, KY 40160
1-270-877-0813 (Fax-5042)
Kevin.Emdee@comcast.net
MVPA #530

WC-56/M-274/M35A2/M-543A2/M-125
_____________________________________________________________

At any rfate test fit with the tools you finally intend to install.

LoboMike · Post by **LoboMike** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:11 am

Ryan,

As to your "crooket" holes, note on the pix I sent you that the holes in the tub are lager than the fastening bolts as a backing plate is used. This allows some limited adjustment.

HTH

Cacti_Ken · Post by **Cacti_Ken** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:10 pm

That is good to know about the backing plate. I wasn't aware of it.

Post by **wesk** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:42 pm

She's called a Plate, tapping (axe clamp, rear) WO # A-2939 which is the same one used on the WWII MB. Bolts actually thread directly into the plate.

OKCM38CDN · Post by **OKCM38CDN** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:42 pm

Real easy to make, I made mine from 1/8" steel 1" x 2" and drilled and tapped 2 holes. I want to say 1/4"x20 bolts but not sure...

Use your axe holder for the bolt pattern...

Hope this helps...