early m38 front lifting shackles

radtech · Post by **radtech** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:16 am

Anyone know the serial number cut off when they changed the front lifting shacles on the M38.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:01 am

Interesting. The 1955 Ord 9 shows different
front and rear shackles only, no s/n change
to the front shackle design.

Dr. Ryan’s book only states May/June 1951.

Post by **wesk** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:05 am

The change is in the 1951 ORD 9. It was printed in Nov 51 but the cover states it was current as of Aug 51. So the assumption is the change occurred between Sep 1950 and Aug 1951.

Ryan, in his M38 Book simply notes the early rear shackles on the front arrangement appears to have been discontinued around May 1951.

The real proof would be in the blue print change for the frame or in the Factory BOM's.

Early

Late

kenperkins · Post by **kenperkins** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:33 pm

MC 21171 (5-'51 ) has late lifting hooks. The frame is prepped for the early bracket but, no weldolet in the rear hole.

MC 22936 (6-'51 ) has late lifting hooks and framed is not prepped for early bracket.

maybe that helps narrow it down a little.

Post by **wesk** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:57 pm

It helps but like all other attempts at dating using existing test subjects we have absolutely no way to guarantee the subject is truly untouched or unmodified by human hands. With depots rebuilding these jeeps in the 50's & 60's completely disassembling them and then re-mating various jeep parts at the end of the line there really is no guarantee on the accuracy of our dating attempts.

kenperkins · Post by **kenperkins** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:23 pm

Wes,...while ya got the ORD9 open to this page...what is WO 647415...top of page
SPACER , bolt snow plow ???

Post by **wesk** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:49 pm

That spacer is listed the same way in both ORD 9's. It would be the steel spacer between the inboard boxed frame rail panel and the frame rail between the bumber and the round crossmember. One on each side.

It would be the spacer inside this 5/8" diameter hole.

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:01 pm

So,
Is that a CJ2A or 3A part number,
then co-opted for the winch mount
for the M38?

radtech · Post by **radtech** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:39 pm

Is there a reason why there are 4 rear lifting hooks listed and only 2 front?My original 1950 M38 10675 has the same in the front as in the rear.

Post by **wesk** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:18 pm

Is that a CJ2A or 3A part number,
then co-opted for the winch mount
for the M38?

Yes, it originated in the old CJ2A parts manual.

Is there a reason why there are 4 rear lifting hooks listed and only 2 front?My original 1950 M38 10675 has the same in the front as in the rear.

Yes, you came in late on this discussion, early M38's thru about spring/summer 1951 used 4 each rear style shackles on both front & rear. Later M38's used a totally different front shackle. I cannot offer an explanation for why the parts manual author failed to separate the two with serial cutoffs but that is a common problem with most of the manuals for these jeeps.

shopteach · Post by **shopteach** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:00 am

My M38 was built in 8-51. Can I assume I should have the late style?

4x4M38 · Post by **4x4M38** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:15 pm

Hi Wes,
Is that your AF M38 in the last photo?

Is it safe to assume the late front shackle equipped
M38’s didn’t even have that second hole in the front
frame member for the early bracket?

The photo above shows only one hole on top.

Post by **wesk** » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:37 pm

ShopTeach: Does your frame have the holes for the late type or early type front shackle bracket?

shopteach · Post by **shopteach** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:57 am

Wes, mine has the late brackets. Thank you for the photo, I will look for the late lifting rings